Subject: FVWM: Fvwm Themes rfc?

From: "Matthew W. Roberts" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:59:42 -0600

There are obviously many ideas about themes and how to implement
them.  I'm wondering ... would it make sense to take an rfc approach
with this issue?  I would be willing to coordinate such an effort
if that would help.  I'm not an FVWM expert by any means, but I
am willing to do what I can.

--
Matthew Roberts
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Structural Engineering                          [email-masked]
Texas A&M University                        
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From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:12:30 -0500 (EST)

> am willing to do what I can.

sounds good to me. If we could get a standard going, it would make it
easier and more uniform in order to break up configs and have drop in
themes. As long as my ls -lad .fvwm* looks like ".fvwm2/" I have no issues
:)
			-peace

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:29:38 -0500

> am willing to do what I can.

Always willing  to  expose my ignorance,   I don't know what   an "rfc
approach"  would be like.  I've read  RFCs, I'm just not familiar with
the creation process.

I'd like to  pursue this as  patches to "sample.fvwmrc/decor_examples"
that would put a  few  basic decors  into  fvwm2 itself and  then  the
themes   could  reside  wherever   and  be   built  on top.   Note how
"decor_examples"  creates a  "DecorMenu".  I  would hope  that part of
creating a theme would be to add an entry to the "DecorMenu".

I was hoping to hook this up to the config creation stuff in
"fvwm/ConfigFvwmSetup".  I don't know if I'll get to this, so patches
would be nice.

(All this is referring to new functionality that only appears in the
2.3.x betas.)

--
Dan Espen
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From: Nathan Froyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:39:10 -0500

> am willing to do what I can.

I would love to see this happen and am also willing to help out. Especially
since I am the new maintainer of http://fvwm.themes.org/ and I don't want to
have the community ranting at me for a rotten method of setting up themes. :)
-- 
</nathan>  |  [email-masked]  |  http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~froydnj/
Is this *idiocy*? Or something so            If the human brain were so simple
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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:44:50 +0100

> creating a theme would be to add an entry to the "DecorMenu".

Uh, with all the work I spent with style changes, couldn't we
just forget about decors and do it with separate files that
read in certain groups of styles? Perhaps we need a better
'UseStyle' style that can be updated at run time.

> (All this is referring to new functionality that only appears in the

Al this 'Theme' stuff is closely related to a potential future
configuration fvwm module/application/script.  If we can write
or edit the config files with such a tool we are already halfway
there.  Can FvwmForm be our config tool?  What I dream about is
an application that fakes a window or menu and where you can click
on the parts to get a dialog to change the corresponding settings.
If the output of such scripts is is grouped in several files,
implementing a theme would be as easy as replacing one or more of
the files and perhaps restart fvwm (I hope that this is not
necessary).

Bye

Dominik ^_^

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From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:19:36 -0500 (EST)

> 'UseStyle' style that can be updated at run time.

Actually, I think a combined approach would be nice. One thing I don't
like about the way themes work in KDE and gnome is how a theme doesn't
allow for settings of colors that don't have to do with a theme, and
selecting a new theme completely trashes little tweaks you might have had
before. 

I think the ability to have some global decors might allow a file-based
theme be more flexible, and users would be able to choose what it is that
a theme is allowed to change wrt look or feel. 

> the files and perhaps restart fvwm (I hope that this is not

If not FvwmForm, then tk :-)
			-peace

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:59:19 -0500

> 'UseStyle' style that can be updated at run time.

I didn't mean to imply that we wouldn't have separate files.  I'd just
like to migrate  the stuff in  "decor_examples" into whatever  the new
scheme is.  I wouldn't like to still have "decor_examples" when we are
done.

Its bad enough that we still have "system.fvwm2rc".  I forget why that
wasn't deleted when  all of it  migrated to ConfigFvwmSetup, but there
was some objection.

> the files and perhaps restart fvwm (I hope that this is not

I don't know if FvwmForm is flexible enough we'd have to see.
I think FvwmScript might be up to it, but I don't know the module yet.
But for pre-written themes, AddToMenu might be enough.  (You read the
theme, and it adds itself to the menu.)

I'd prefer  to  stay   away  from anything that   requires  additional
packages.

I have more to say about reading in response to another mail...

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:11:03 -0500

> themes. As long as my ls -lad .fvwm* looks like ".fvwm2/" I have no issues

In the 2.3.x series, we have new functionality that relates to this.

If you export FVWM_USERHOME="$HOME/.fvwm", you can then say
"Read Theme1" and it attempts to first read
"$HOME/.fvwm/Theme1" and then in "<install_prefix>/etc/fvwm/Theme1".

This allows Theme1 to exist in either place so you could use the installed
version, or your own copy.

The other way to do this is to make the read command specify
the sub-directory:

"Read .fvwm/Theme1"

If we are going to have site-wide themes, this gets a little ugly.
The file would be "<install_prefix>/etc/fvwm/.fvwm/Theme1".

I have to admit, there are some gaps in how I see this thing
being designed...

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From: Jason Kibblewhite <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:32:12 -0700

> I'd prefer  to  stay   away  from anything that   requires  additional

Well staying away from more "fluff" in the packages is certainly

a good idea.

I also believe that FvwmForm is not flexible enough on it's own

however in use with a sh script it would be quick simple, but

then we run into the fluff problem.

I was/am working on a FvwmScript to do this, I've run into a

few problems here and there script and hardware wise in the

last few months so I haven't touched it in weeks. but at present

you can tell it if you want the style additions, titlebars, sound

buttons, etc.  I have yet to add FvwmTheme support however.

If this sound like it might meet the idea I can finish up the

FvwmTheme stuff in it and give out copies to play with.

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