Subject: Re: FVWM: fvwm2 + enlightenment

From: "Patrick K." <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:45:44 -0700 (PDT)

Hello, :)

Sometime in the late 1900s Eric Brandwine <[email-masked]> wrote:

EB> If you really want to have fun with windows, look into DPS.  If you have
EB> Solaris or SGI, or better yet, NeXT, you are set.

EB> Since there is a full PostScript interpreter on board the display server,
EB> anything that you can do in PS you can put on screen, even to animating
EB> the window decorations (Shaped!).  Mostly useless when it comes down to
EB> it.

   This sounds neat!  If one is willing to give up so much processing
   power to make their display look nice-nice.  I do like my workstation
   to look attractive but what is the performance hit one might have
   to endure for such a display?

EB> If you just want the funky decorations, look into ImLib, the image
EB> processing engine that E uses.  It is easy enough to create shaped windows
EB> in X.  It would be easier to add shaped borders to Fvwm than it would be
EB> to fold the two together.

EB> I am sure that if you get a framework going, folks will want to jump in
EB> and help coding.  One big problem you are going to have: Fvwm has only 1
EB> border width, not seperate widths for top/bottom/left/right...  Also, the
EB> positions of reparented client windows are hard coded in many places in
EB> the code.

EB> Also, you are going to have to be able to specify each border seperately,
EB> and turn off the top border.  Corner handles will have to have independent
EB> sizes.

   Sounds good.  :)  And this brings up my question from a week or so
   ago about fvwm2's ability to make my windows look like what I had
   when running AfterStep:

      [Title bar with no borders and no handles]
      |                                        |
      |       main window (w/no sides!!)       |
      |                                        |
      ==--------------------------------------==

           ^^^ bottom border with two handles ( == ) one at each end.

   If the user could specify the widths for top/bottom/left/right borders
   my problems are *almost* solved :)  just set:
   
      border width = 5
      top/left/right border width = 0
      # note this leaves the bottom border width = 5

   Only thing remains is the handles which are 'L' shaped in fvwm and I
   am not sure how easy/hard it would be to change their shapes. :)

   Any ideas??

EB> This is not an easy task, and may have to wait for 3.x, but probably well
EB> worth doing.

   I don't know .. if enough people/users think this is a good idea I
   think it might be worth starting implementation.  Targeting for
   Fvwm 2.2 or something like that.   Or am I too ambitious?  *:-}

Patrick K ...
[email-masked] (development and consulting)
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---

From: Eric Brandwine <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:27:35 -0400 (EDT)

>    to endure for such a display?
Big.  Unless you have additional postscript hardware.

>    ago about fvwm2's ability to make my windows look like what I had
Add too many styles, and Fvwm gets too big/buggy/slow/unusable.  If we
want to add arbitrary window decorations, either adopt the scheme of E,
and use pixmaps w/Shapes for everything, or spend a good long time
thinking about how to structure it so that it is fast/flexible and not too
user-terrifying.

>    Fvwm 2.2 or something like that.   Or am I too ambitious?  *:-}
Come up with a spec.  List all the things that Fvwm should do in the
window decoration area.  Then, we have to figure out how to code it.  The,
we will basically have to overhaul all the code.  (which was done for
textured borders, so it is not impossible....)

Start the ball rolling, and see how far it gets.  The problem with
something like this is that if you add support for one new style, that is
all well and good, but helps you not at all to add another.  Adding the
framework neccesary is a big job, with little immediate payoff.  There is
no way to do this in steps.  Tear it down, build it up.  Ick.

I am willing to help, but I have a job, and they actually expect me to
work, so....

ericb

---

From: Jay Kuri <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:54:27 -0500 (CDT)

> textured borders, so it is not impossible....)

     How about adopting a policy like apache's modules? Certain things can
have a secondary code module compiled in.  Something like fvwm-modules,
only closer to the core, where starting a new process wouldn't be feasable
(ie, window decorations) 
     In this way, fvwm keeps it's normal (supported) behavior... but if
someone wants a new behavior, they can add it themselves without producing
an entirely new Window-Manager.  (ENFVWM (Entirely New-FVWM?))
     I've not looked heavily at the code, so I don't know if this is a
minor adjustment, or a major coding-job.. Either way, I'd be willing to
work on it...

   Thoughts on this?

Jay Kuri

---
Everyone can be taught to sculpt:  Michelangelo would have had to be 
taught how not to.  So it is with the great programmers.

---

From: Eric Brandwine <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:17:02 -0400 (EDT)

> only closer to the core, where starting a new process wouldn't be feasable
This is approximately what I was suggesting.  It sounds like the modules
that you want to use are dynamically loaded, while I was just suggesting
a well defined interface so that you could add a block of code at compile
time.

> minor adjustment, or a major coding-job.. Either way, I'd be willing to
Major code overhaul.  The current behavior of Fvwm is implicitly hardcoded
in almost all parts of the code.

ericb

---

From: Adam Kopacz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:23:51 +0200

Eric Brandwine wrote:
hi,

> window decoration area.  Then, we have to figure out how to code it.  The,

ok :-)

- when i use a round pixmap in the right top of my 
  titlebar then the border should be round there too.

i want that my windows looks like:
 
 _   _________________________     ________
|X\_/ THE TITLE OF THE WINDOW \___/X|X|X|X|
|------------------------------------------
|                                          |
|

ps: why the patch from www.rat.de/Adam/Linux/FVWM2/
isn't added to 2.00.46 ? 
i mean this with the @bla.xpm@ pixmaps left in the menus.

-- 

Bye,                        klospatz's Linux-Place (Babes/Files)
    Adam Kopacz (klospatz)       http://www.rat.de/Adam