Subject: FVWM: some fvwm2 questions

From: "Eric S. Raymond" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:14:28 -0400

Just for fun I played with fvwm2 recently, and was sufficiently
impressed with new Style and Decor stuff (and the toolbar enabled by
FvwmButtons) that I've junked my old fvwm.

I'm using 2.0.45.  I have a few questions.  My .fvwm2rc is available
at http://www.ccil/~esr/fvwm2 in case it turns out to be relevant.

1. I think I'm using the stock button styles and bindings.  My
   window frames have a thick dash and a thin dash at the left,
   and a small and large square at the right.

a) What does the small dash do?  The only effect I can see is that
   it changes the title-panel texture, but it must be doing something
   subtler and more significant than that, right?....

b) Where are these default buttons (and other defaults) set up?  Are
   they wired into the code?  If so, is there an fvwm2rc equivalent
   to the defaults I can peruse somewhere?

2. Like everybody else, I'd like to be able to launch my MUA by 
   double-clicking a swallowed xbiff.  I've read the last month
   of fvwm-list archives, but am not clear on whether there is a
   known recipe that works.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.ccil.org/~esr">Eric S. Raymond</a>
--
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---

From: William Denton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:56:02 -0400 (EDT)

In the current (July 1997) issue of Scientific American, there's a
section on computers and why they aren't so hot.  (The article can be
found on the web at

	http://www.sciam.com/0797issue/0797trends.html,

the bit I'm going to refer to can be found at 

	http://www.sciam.com/0797issue/0797trendsbox2.html

although it doesn't have any of the illustrations.)

Usability research has shown, apparently, that pie-shaped menus work
better than the ones we all have now.  There's a picture in the
magazine of a circular menu, with a central button, buttons radiating
out to the left, and various buttons and glyphs on the right.  "They
are 30 per cent faster and have half the error rates of menu bars,"
someone called Schneiderman says.  "We remember angles so much better
than distances," Ted Selker says (there's a link to his home page on
the SA web site).

It makes sense to me.  Right now, with pull-down menus, you have to be
careful about how far you go down, and everyone I know is always
watching the menus to make sure they go down just the right amount.
Last weekend I was fooling around with fvwm and quit out of it twice,
when all I'd wanted to do was restart it - the two options are very
close in my menu.  If I could go "click - whoosh it left and up -
click" or "click - straight down for Emacs - click," I think I'd get
used to the angles very quickly.

I'm wondering, how hard would it be to do a module that would let
people create pie menus?  I assume it *can* be done, but I don't know
anything about X programming, so I have no idea how tough it is.
Beyond that, of course, someone would have to do it, but I'm hoping
the idea might intrigue someone. :)

Bill
-- 
William Denton | Toronto, Canada | http://www.vex.net/~buff/ | Caveat lector.
  "It is better to incur a mild rebuke than to perform an onerous task."
                                   -- "Uncle" Oswald Hendryks Cornelius

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:58:25 EDT

Hi, 

I saw that article too -- I mostly agree with it.
Now, about pie menus.  I found on the internet
a WM that is called piewm.tar.Z.  It gives me an 
error that something is declared not right.
Anyway, try it on your computer, it MIGHT
work, I don't know (but because an error
is in code itself -- I doubt)

Hava fun.

Nikita

---

From: Larry Gensch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:01:03 -0400 (EDT)

> used to the angles very quickly.

The problem isn't the shape of the menu, but what happens when you
make that selection.  For example, in fvwm2, a "restart" operation may
end up causing the screen to flicker as the applications get
reparented, but it's mostly harmless.  (Well, it DOES have the side
effect of exiting all your modules, but if you have them set up in your
RestartFuction, all is not lost.)  Quitting fvwm2 (especially if fvwm2
is your "main" session) is much more severe... it can cause you to exit
your applications.

So, even if "Restart" and "Quit" are close to each other, there should
be different feedback for a potentially harmful operation like "Quit".

So, in my .fvwm2rc, I have a root menu something like this (minimalized
to show the point):

DestroyMenu	"RootMenu"
AddToMenu	"RootMenu"
+ "Root Menu"				Title
+ "Xterm%mini.xterm.xpm%"		Exec xterm &
+ "Applications%mini-x2.xpm%"		Popup Applications
+ "" 					Nop
+ "Shuffle Up%mini-raise.xpm%"		CirculateUp
+ "Shuffle Down%mini-lower.xpm%"	CirculateDown
+ "Refresh%mini-ray.xpm%"		Refresh
+ ""					Nop
+ "Restart fvwm2%mini.fvwm.xpm%"	Restart fvwm2
+ "Exit fvwm2...%mini.exit.xpm%"	Module FvwmForm QuitVerify

*QuitVerifyGrabServer
*QuitVerifyWarpPointer
*QuitVerifyFont		 	*helvetica*m*r*n*14*
*QuitVerifyButtonFont	 	*helvetica*m*o*n*14*
*QuitVerifyFore			Black
*QuitVerifyBack			Gray60
*QuitVerifyItemFore		Black
*QuitVerifyItemBack		Gray60
*QuitVerifyCommand		Beep
*QuitVerifyLine	center
*QuitVerifyText			"Do you really want to quit?"
*QuitVerifyLine			expand
*QuitVerifyButton		quit	"Yes"	^M
*QuitVerifyCommand		Quit
*QuitVerifyButton		quit	"No"	^[
*QuitVerifyCommand		Nop

Style "QuitVerify"		NoTitle, NoHandles, BorderWidth 8

Thus, when you select the "wrong" menu item (Exit Fvwm...), instead of
mindlessly exiting the window manager, a verification window is put
up, requesting confirmation of the operation.

Now, I know that my response to your message doesn't have anything to
do with "pie menus" or whatever, but it shows that even with the
existing menu structure, it is possible to minimize the amount of
damage done if you hit the "wrong" entry by accident.

-- 
(void) lar3ry();                                      [email-masked]

     "Sometimes it happens.  People just explode.  Natural causes."

---

From: Kai Grossjohann <[email-masked]>
Date: 10 Jul 1997 16:05:18 +0200

>>>>> imennov  writes:

  Nikita> I saw that article too -- I mostly agree with it.  Now,
  Nikita> about pie menus.  I found on the internet a WM that is
  Nikita> called piewm.tar.Z.  It gives me an error that something is
  Nikita> declared not right.  Anyway, try it on your computer, it
  Nikita> MIGHT work, I don't know (but because an error is in code
  Nikita> itself -- I doubt)

We have used a version of piewm successfully.  It must've been three
years ago or more.  It was on SunOS 4.1.3.

Fyi, piewm is tvtwm with pie menus.

kai
-- 
A large number of young women don't trust men with beards.
(BFBS Radio)