Subject: Re: FVWM: Re: "active focus" applications (MetaCard)

From: Tom Varga <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:11:59 -0400

> Your confusion was undoubtedly due to the situation where you've got
> multiple xterm windows open, since the opposite problem occurs when
> you've got a modern GUI application (and by that I mean one that uses
> dialogs and palettes).  It's still amazing to me that people who work
> primarily with the "stone age" version of GUI technology (xterms) have
> the nerve to stand up and say that pointer focus is superior and
> should be the default.  My whole point is that given the choice, most
> people want true GUI applications instead of command-line tools, and
> that these applications work better with explicit focus.  A point that
> no one has provided a defensible argument against.
> 
> If we can't do any better than xterms as a primary work environment,
> the X market is going to continue its slide toward oblivion because
> people just won't bother with it when there are GUI systems that give
> them everything they want and need without having to use a
> command-line interface.

Show me a real high-tech power user, be him/her a programmer or engineer, and
you'll see a person who barely uses the mouse.  Command-lines, programs,
scripts and aliases will always be MUCH faster than some bozo clicking around
with a mouse pushing buttons.  That's why xterms are wonderful.

With that said, this is all just religion.  I won't change mine and I'm certain
nobody else will change theirs.  So, let's just provide all possible
functionality and let the users choose ... even if their wrong. :) 

-Tom
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---

From: Bill Oswald <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:01:46 -0500 (CDT)

<having just sat here and read through all of the posts on this thread...> 

Couple of observations: 

1) The only person even remotely advocating changing the default mouse
focus policy is Mr. Raney. 

2) Most of Mr. Raney's arguments, while being forcefully delivered, do
not apply and are at best moot regarding what is best for "most users." 

3) Being out numbered, I usually recommend a soft-sell approach.  8^) 

That being said, I'll maintain that Fvwm is not, nor should it be, the
window manager for all users.  I would hate to see it become a member of
LCDS (Lowest Common Denominator Software).  If we (Fvwm writers and
contributors) have to be concerned with computer illiterates, then I'll
be forced to go off and write another one.  Elitist?  Maybe.  Truth of
the matter is that most Fvwm users (at my site anyway) tend to be on the
power-user end of the scale.  The first rule in writing any software is
to know your audience. 

Frankly, I don't care what a Mac or Win95 user thinks.  It's not germane
to the discussion.  They're not using Fvwm and I'm not using Micro$oft
Word (or any other M$ product). 

This thread has gone too far.  In the time it has taken me to compose
this note 8 more posts have floated into my mailbox.  Hopefully I have
said what's on the mind of several other readers.  Like Michael
Tiefenback,  I'm now ignoring this thread.  Hopefully it will go away. 

-Bill