Subject: FVWM: New FvwmIconMan released, and update on miniicon patch

From: Brady Montz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:15:48 -0700 (MST)

I released version 0.8 of FvwmIconMan. You can get it at:
ftp://mahler.cs.arizona.edu/pub/FvwmIconMan/FvwmIconMan-0.8.tar.gz

It contains the miniicon stuff (handled a little bit better than the
rough one that was contained in that mega miniicons patch I mailed in 
last week), and more importantly, it tries to minimize the number of
times it redraws the manager windows when you switch pages. 

You don't need the miniicons patch to compile this version, it works fine 
without it.

I took the FvwmIconMan stuff out of the miniicons patch on mahler as
well.

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From: "Charles Hines" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:12:30 -0400

>>>>> "BM" == Brady Montz <[email-masked]> writes:

BM> I released version 0.8 of FvwmIconMan. You can get it at:

Ok, I'll be sure to get it.

BM> It contains the miniicon stuff (handled a little bit better than
BM> the rough one that was contained in that mega miniicons patch I
BM> mailed in last week), and more importantly, it tries to minimize
BM> the number of times it redraws the manager windows when you switch
BM> pages.

Oh good.  I was going to chat with you about that, because with lots
of windows on each page it would take several seconds to redraw when I
tested it last.  I'll have to check out the improvement!

BM> You don't need the miniicons patch to compile this version, it
BM> works fine without it.

Oh good.  But I've decided to try and make everyone happy on this one
and actually add the mini icon support.  Since it's #ifdef'ed in
there, I guess it won't hurt anything.  As I've said in the past I
don't like all these #ifdef's in there for various features, but I've
decided that it's the only way to get closer to pleasing everyone.

Which brings me to another point.  Between that, adding Andrew's
Titlebar pixmap patch (without the border textures just yet, although
I may merge some variant of that in as well), the patches from
Albrecht, and all the other stuff that I've put into my local
development version, I think one more beta before 2.1.0 might be in
order.

I really didn't want to do that, but I made the mistake of taking too
long to get it out and feeling the "need" to put a lot of things in.

So, since there will be one more beta, I also would like to take care
of a few more things, like ressurrecting CursorStyle and TogglePaging,
plus some other stuff from the TO-DO list that I think should probably
get done before 2.1.0 now that I've thought about it some more.

I'd like to get 2.0.44 out within a few weeks (it'll probably take a
little bit to pull all this together) then I'd like to get 2.1.0 out
no more than a week or two after that (with NOTHING but bugfixes and
absolute necessites so it won't get delayed again).  Then the
semi-mythical Great Style Flags Rewrite and general code cleanup for
the next beta releases (2.2.x) sometime after that (along with
official 2.1.x bugfix and minor enhancement releases, which I'm sure
will be needed).

Sound good?

Well, gotta get back to my weekend...

Chuck

--
*******************************************************************************
Charles K. Hines <[email-masked]>
IBM Logic Synthesis Developer [BooleDozer (TM)]
Martial Arts Instructor [Modern Arnis, Presas Style Filipino Martial Arts]

         "Go back to sleep, Chuck.  You're just havin' a nightmare
             -- of course, we ARE still in Hell." (Gary Larson)
*******************************************************************************
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From: Richard Lister <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:36:55 +0100

From: Charles Hines <[email-masked]>
Subject: FVWM: Re: New FvwmIconMan released, and update on miniicon patch
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:12:30 -0400

> development version, I think one more beta before 2.1.0 might be in

Great, I'm pleased to see Andrew's patch going in. However, I feel
that it should include the ability to specify a foreground colour
for the titlebar, too. For example I have a solid light colour for
inactive windows, but dark for active, and need to change the text
colour accordingly.

A while back I submitted a patch to the patch that allowed, e.g.
  TitleStyle ActiveUp (Solid White/MediumPurple)
which corresponds to the standard fvwm colour-selecting syntax.
Unfortunately there's a bug in my code, but I'll try to fix
it in the next couple of days. 

> long to get it out and feeling the "need" to put a lot of things in.

Feeping creaturism :-) 

> Well, gotta get back to my weekend...

What's a weekend ?...

Ric

Richard J. Lister, Research Assistant    
Neural Computing Research Group, Aston University
[email-masked] 
http://www.ncrg.aston.ac.uk/~listerrj/

---

From: Lars Wirzenius <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:11:32 +0300

> What's a weekend ?...

A weekend is that time when it takes ages for other people to
answer mail and talk requests. It sometimes takes several days.
I can't imagine what they are thinking. Perhaps they're in the
middle of a _really_ intensive game of Doom. It usually takes
about two days and happens five days after the previous one
ended.

I don't think weekends are the same as vacations. They look the
same, but vacations happen more irregularly and can take several
weeks at a time. Also, vacations seems to cause changes in skin
color for some people, but it doesn't seem to last for very long.
(Too bad, a bit of variation is always helpful for those awful
face-to-face meetings. Why can't people just send me mail.)

-- 
Please read <http://www.iki.fi/liw/mail-to-lasu.html> before mailing me.
Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list.

---

From: [email-masked] (Albrecht Kadlec)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 15:34:45 +0100

>>>>> Charles Hines writes:

>>>>> "BM" == Brady Montz <[email-masked]> writes:

C> Which brings me to another point.  Between that, adding Andrew's
C> Titlebar pixmap patch (without the border textures just yet, although
C> I may merge some variant of that in as well), the patches from
C> Albrecht, and all the other stuff that I've put into my local
C> development version, I think one more beta before 2.1.0 might be in
C> order.

I hoped this would happen, as it's been way time that some things were
added/changed.
Do you plan on changing some names, before releasing this beta or the final
2.1 (seekright -> GetNextToken is on my wishlist, if GetNextToken is rooted
out)
Just after inclusion of all relevant patches and before the release would be
the optimal time.

C> I really didn't want to do that, but I made the mistake of taking too
C> long to get it out and feeling the "need" to put a lot of things in.

and we did ours and sent patches :-)
I think it's for the benefit of everyone: no one wants to change such
things after the official release (this would mean more questions of the
form:  "Are you using 1.24, 2.0 or 2.1 beta ?")

C> So, since there will be one more beta, I also would like to take care
C> of a few more things, like ressurrecting CursorStyle and TogglePaging,
C> plus some other stuff from the TO-DO list that I think should probably
C> get done before 2.1.0 now that I've thought about it some more.

good. this will halve the travel on the list:
"where did TogglePage go?" :-)

C> I'd like to get 2.0.44 out within a few weeks (it'll probably take a
C> little bit to pull all this together) then I'd like to get 2.1.0 out
C> no more than a week or two after that (with NOTHING but bugfixes and
C> absolute necessites so it won't get delayed again).  Then the
C> semi-mythical Great Style Flags Rewrite and general code cleanup for
C> the next beta releases (2.2.x) sometime after that (along with
C> official 2.1.x bugfix and minor enhancement releases, which I'm sure
C> will be needed).

C> Sound good?
GOOD (Tm)

C> Well, gotta get back to my weekend...
I postponed my fresh air- breathing till tomorrow :)

albrecht
-- 
... and, could someone please be so kind to present an algorithm to
cope with this world in real time, using incomplete knowledge !?
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---

From: Brandon Browning <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:32:45 -0700

> Oh good.  But I've decided to try and make everyone happy on this
> one and actually add the mini icon support.  Since it's #ifdef'ed in
> don't like all these #ifdef's in there for various features, but
> I've decided that it's the only way to get closer to pleasing
> everyone.

An idea struck me that might be possible; but I'm not sure how much
rewrite it would take (most likely a _lot_).  Since #ifdef's are the
Achilles Heel of programming (and nobody really likes them), would it
be possible to rewrite some or all of FVWM in an "Apache" manner,
i.e., using "modules" to implement different features?  I don't recall
too many #ifdefs; Apache just "knows" there's a module built in.  In
fact, it would allow one to link in, say mini-icons, without
rebuilding the entire FVWM.

Obviously, something of this magnitude would have to wait for the
Great Rewrite (2.1), if it were even considered.  I've never dived too
deep into the Apache nor the FVWM2 code, but would be willing.
Unfortunately, my knowledge of X is very, very limited. :(

Comments? Flames? Scapegoats?

-- 
Brandon M. Browning
Systems Engineer
http://www.nwnet.net/

---

From: "Barry A. Warsaw" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:04:16 -0400

>>>>> "BB" == Brandon Browning <[email-masked]> writes:

    BB> An idea struck me that might be possible; but I'm not sure how
    BB> much rewrite it would take (most likely a _lot_).  Since
    BB> #ifdef's are the Achilles Heel of programming (and nobody
    BB> really likes them), would it be possible to rewrite some or
    BB> all of FVWM in an "Apache" manner, i.e., using "modules" to
    BB> implement different features?  I don't recall too many
    BB> #ifdefs; Apache just "knows" there's a module built in.  In
    BB> fact, it would allow one to link in, say mini-icons, without
    BB> rebuilding the entire FVWM.

I think it's a great idea.  I haven't dived into Apache too deeply,
but there's work in the Python community on PyApache, where a Python
interpreter is embedded in the server and Python modules are written
to extend the functionality of the server.  Seems to me that Python
has all the necessary bits to make it an excellent candidate for such
a thing in Fvwm.  I'm pretty sure it has an Xlib module, and I know it
has higher level toolkits too.  The Fvwm core could do the
time-intensive stuff and make calls into the Python interpreter in
response to Fvwm's high level view of events.  Fvwm would definite an
API (embodied as a Python module) for useful things like warping the
cursor, moving focus around, (de)iconifing windows, etc.  Python
modules could import this and make appropriate calls.

I think it would run pretty fast too since (my guess is that) most of
the overhead in the current Python-Fvwm module interface is starting
up the Python interpreter every time.

-Barry