Subject: FVWM: 1.24r -> 2.0.42 upgrade woes

From: "Barry A. Warsaw" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 20:46:40 -0400

I'm new both to fvwm and (just minutes ago) fvwm2.  I'd spent the last
few days moving from ctwm to fvwm and had gotten my configuration file
(not located at ~/.fvwmrc) just about how I wanted it.

So I decided to pull down version 2 beta and run it with my version 1
config file: fvwm -f /path/to/my/fvwmrc

Whoa!  Big problem!  The -f command line switch has different
semantics now.  I got a semi-cryptic error from fvwm saying it
couldn't exec my file.  Hmm, I didn't think it should have exec
permission, but okay, I changed it anyway.  Still no good.  On top of
this, fvwm still starts up but with *no way* to exit it!  Fortunately
I start up an XEmacs process too so I can kill fvwm.

So I guess it's time to read the manpage :-).  Sure enough the -f
option should take a command instead of just a file name.  However,
for backwards compatibility sake, I would suggest that -f have the
same semantics as for version 1, and that a different switch be used
for the new semantics.  Also, fvwm should have some failsafe exit
mechanism that is *always* present unless specifically defeated.  No
matter how early the problem in the config file is, there should be a
tidy way to exit fvwm.  These things would help in the conversion
process.

Finally, I have a dual-headed SparcStation, so I tried starting up
fvwm version 1 with the -s option, on :0.0.  Then I tried to start up
fvwm2 with -d :0.1 -s but it complained that another WM was running.
Once I use -s, how can I get another window manager on my second
screen?

Please!  I don't mean the above to sound ungrateful.  I see Chuck
Hines is the maintainer for fvwm now and that's real cool 'cause he's
contributed greatly to XEmacs.  In my couple of days of hacking with
version 1 I've already kill more than one nit I had with ctwm.  fvwm
is great stuff and I look forward to more glowing reports in the
future. :-)  I'm really psyched about doing more integration with
Python and the module subsystem (yup, I've seen Jonathan Kelley's
fvwmmod.py -- again, cool stuff).

Thanks for letting me blow off steam!

-Barry
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---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:23:39 -0400

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <[email-masked]> writes:

BAW> I'm new both to fvwm and (just minutes ago) fvwm2.  I'd spent the
BAW> last few days moving from ctwm to fvwm and had gotten my
BAW> configuration file (not located at ~/.fvwmrc) just about how I
BAW> wanted it.

Welcome aboard Barry.

BAW> So I decided to pull down version 2 beta and run it with my version 1
BAW> config file: fvwm -f /path/to/my/fvwmrc

Uh oh...I think I know where this is going.

BAW> Whoa!  Big problem!  The -f command line switch has different
BAW> semantics now.  I got a semi-cryptic error from fvwm saying it
BAW> couldn't exec my file.  Hmm, I didn't think it should have exec
BAW> permission, but okay, I changed it anyway.  Still no good.  On top of
BAW> this, fvwm still starts up but with *no way* to exit it!  Fortunately
BAW> I start up an XEmacs process too so I can kill fvwm.

BAW> So I guess it's time to read the manpage :-).  Sure enough the -f
BAW> option should take a command instead of just a file name.  However,
BAW> for backwards compatibility sake, I would suggest that -f have the
BAW> same semantics as for version 1, and that a different switch be used
BAW> for the new semantics.

Yup, I plan to make that change for the next beta release.  Actually,
I wanted to get it into 2.0.42, but rushed at the end to get it out
because it was taking so long and neglected to make that change.
2.0.43 will have -f <configfile> like 'normal' and a -cmd <configcmd>
for the alternate method.

BAW> Also, fvwm should have some failsafe exit mechanism that is
BAW> *always* present unless specifically defeated.  No matter how
BAW> early the problem in the config file is, there should be a tidy
BAW> way to exit fvwm.  These things would help in the conversion
BAW> process.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out why it's locking up when no config
file is available.  There are a lot of defaults in there now
(including one menu bound to a button press over the root window which
is just 'Exit FVWM'), and I thought that would be sufficient, but
apparently not since it still doesn't work.  I hope to have this
cleared up for the next beta as well though.

BAW> Finally, I have a dual-headed SparcStation, so I tried starting
BAW> up fvwm version 1 with the -s option, on :0.0.  Then I tried to
BAW> start up fvwm2 with -d :0.1 -s but it complained that another WM
BAW> was running.  Once I use -s, how can I get another window manager
BAW> on my second screen?

Unfortunately I don't have access to any multiple display systems, so
I can't test this out...  As I recall though, I think Rob said that
the multiple screen code was lacking some.

What happens if you don't use the -s?  Does that work - does fvwm2
control both screens?

And I think that someone else out there on the list has done this
before.  Does anyone have any advice/experience/etc with this?

BAW> Please!  I don't mean the above to sound ungrateful.  I see Chuck
BAW> Hines is the maintainer for fvwm now and that's real cool 'cause he's
BAW> contributed greatly to XEmacs.

Hey, thanks for the ego boost there Barry!  Although I think that the
word 'greatly' should be removed from that sentence, especially with
my lack of activity on the current beta...

BAW> In my couple of days of hacking with version 1 I've already kill
BAW> more than one nit I had with ctwm.  fvwm is great stuff and I
BAW> look forward to more glowing reports in the future. :-)

And we're glad to have you aboard!

BAW> I'm really psyched about doing more integration with Python and
BAW> the module subsystem (yup, I've seen Jonathan Kelley's fvwmmod.py
BAW> -- again, cool stuff).

Sounds like you'll be making some good contributions then!  I've never
played with Python myself, but I know it's gaining in popularity.  And
any additional interfaces for modules can only be good for fvwm, I
think.  There's some Tcl/Tk ones already, I'd like to make a Perl
interface, and now Python.  Pretty cool...

BAW> Thanks for letting me blow off steam!

No problem.

Chuck

*******************************************************************************
Charles K. Hines <[email-masked]>
IBM Logic Synthesis developer [BooleDozer (TM)]
Martial Arts Instructor [Modern Arnis, Presas Style Filipino Martial Arts]

IBM Internal email:                        "Go back to sleep, Chuck.  You're
  [email-masked],              just havin' a nightmare--of course,
  HINESC at FISHKILL, HINESC at FSHVMFK1    we are still in Hell." Gary Larson
*******************************************************************************
--
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---

From: [email-masked] (Albrecht Kadlec)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:16:42 +0200

>>>>> Barry A Warsaw writes:

B> I'm new both to fvwm and (just minutes ago) fvwm2.  I'd spent the last
B> few days moving from ctwm to fvwm and had gotten my configuration file
B> (not located at ~/.fvwmrc) just about how I wanted it.

B> So I decided to pull down version 2 beta and run it with my version 1
B> config file: fvwm -f /path/to/my/fvwmrc

B> Whoa!  Big problem!  The -f command line switch has different
B> semantics now.  I got a semi-cryptic error from fvwm saying it
B> couldn't exec my file.  Hmm, I didn't think it should have exec
B> permission, but okay, I changed it anyway.  Still no good.  On top of
B> this, fvwm still starts up but with *no way* to exit it!  Fortunately
B> I start up an XEmacs process too so I can kill fvwm.
comp.os.emacs :-)

B> for backwards compatibility sake, I would suggest that -f have the
B> same semantics as for version 1, and that a different switch be used
B> for the new semantics.  Also, fvwm should have some failsafe exit
B> mechanism that is *always* present unless specifically defeated.  No
B> matter how early the problem in the config file is, there should be a
B> tidy way to exit fvwm.  These things would help in the conversion
B> process.

does it make sense to have C-c or C-d kill fvwm, if there is no more
client? 
(so even if the focus is on a stack of xbiffs / other useless windows, and
you've no xterm or xemacs :-), you could exit/logout by repeatedly pressing
C-d or C-c or sth like that.

B> Finally, I have a dual-headed SparcStation, so I tried starting up
oops, a hydra ?
sorry, no idea about this one.

albrecht
-- 
We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teachers, leave those kids alone.
Hey, Teacher, leave those kids alone!
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.	-- Pink Floyd
--
Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL:http://www.hpc.uh.edu/fvwm/>.
To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a
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To report problems, send mail to [email-masked].

---

From: "Barry A. Warsaw" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:39:08 -0400

>>>>> "ch" == chuck hines <[email-masked]> writes:

    ch> Yup, I plan to make that change for the next beta release.
    ch> Actually, I wanted to get it into 2.0.42, but rushed at the
    ch> end to get it out because it was taking so long and neglected
    ch> to make that change. will have -f <configfile> like 'normal'
    ch> and a -cmd <configcmd> for the alternate method.

Actually, I started looking through the code.  It seems like -f and
-cmd were there, but -f wasn't doing the Right Thing.  Pretty easy for
me to hack that in while I wait for .43! :-)

    Me> Finally, I have a dual-headed SparcStation, so I tried
    Me> starting up fvwm version 1 with the -s option, on :0.0.  Then
    Me> I tried to start up fvwm2 with -d :0.1 -s but it complained
    Me> that another WM was running.  Once I use -s, how can I get
    Me> another window manager on my second screen?

    ch> Unfortunately I don't have access to any multiple display
    ch> systems, so I can't test this out...  As I recall though, I
    ch> think Rob said that the multiple screen code was lacking some.

    ch> What happens if you don't use the -s?  Does that work - does
    ch> fvwm2 control both screens?

    ch> And I think that someone else out there on the list has done
    ch> this before.  Does anyone have any advice/experience/etc with
    ch> this?

In general, starting fvwm without -s does start an independent fvwm on
each screen.  So far so good!

But I've noticed more problems with dual headed support for fvwm2.
Focus doesn't always leave the window on screen 0 if I move the cursor
to screen 1.  I.e. even though the cursor is over the root window in
screen 1, all typing still goes to the last window in screen 0 that
had the focus (I think all events do this too).

In ctwm, which had pretty good dual head support, restarting on one
screen restarted them both.  Now, I'm not sure I mind the way fvwm
does it (they are restarted independently), but I would definitely
want the ability to manually start a separate 'fvwm -s' on each
screen.

I wish I was more of an X wiz so I could help out.  I can only feebly
suggest ripping as much as possible out of ctwm 3.3 since it did
really the best job of dual head support of any window manager I've
used.

    Me> I'm really psyched about doing more integration with Python
    Me> and the module subsystem (yup, I've seen Jonathan Kelley's
    Me> fvwmmod.py again, cool stuff).

    ch> Sounds like you'll be making some good contributions then!
    ch> I've never played with Python myself, but I know it's gaining
    ch> in popularity.  And any additional interfaces for modules can
    ch> only be good for fvwm, I think.  There's some Tcl/Tk ones
    ch> already, I'd like to make a Perl interface, and now
    ch> Python. Pretty cool...

Lots of set backs, but I hope I can post at least a minimal Python/Tk
module relatively soon.  Stay tuned!

-Barry

---

From: "Barry A. Warsaw" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:45:12 -0400

>>>>> "A" == Albrecht Kadlec <[email-masked]> writes:

    A> does it make sense to have C-c or C-d kill fvwm, if there is no
    A> more client?  (so even if the focus is on a stack of xbiffs /
    A> other useless windows, and you've no xterm or xemacs :-), you
    A> could exit/logout by repeatedly pressing C-d or C-c or sth like
    A> that.

Alt-Shift-Del ?? :-)