Subject: FVWM: Fvwm95-2

From: David Barth <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 19:35:18 +0200

H.Peraza and I made a quick hack around fvwm2.
This way, we hope to free the fvwm TODO list from the MS-windowish
requests.
Here is the annoucement :

FVWM95 : a window manager based on fvwm, and revamped to look like the
         MS-one

What is FVWM-95 ?
-----------------

Fvwm95 is a hack based on fvwm2.x. It tries to emulate the good features
of a well known product without bloating the regular fvwm code.

The main aspects are :

     A familiar look and feel. It can be interesting for users moving
     from the MS-World to Unix, or for those who have to switch
     regularly between the two. Or for those that simply would like to
     have the same MS look and feel in Unix, or for those that just want
     to have another window manager, or... But before all, it's meant to
     be usefull, simple and efficient;

     Same flexible and easy configuration as the native fvwm;

     Functionality extensible via loadable modules;

     A taskbar: find quickly an application window and don't take space
     with icon windows;

In the future, we plan to have a desktop/folder metaphor supported by
the window manager, as well as improve the current version.

PLEASE NOTE that fvwm-2.x is work in progress, so is fvwm95 too...

Where to get it ?
---------------
     You can ftp the latest version from: ftp://mitac11.uia.ac.be/pub .
     The new version is named: fvwm95-2.0.41b.tgz

     See also : http://ltiwww.epfl.ch/~barth/fvwm95.html

Acknowledgements :
-----------------

Many thanks to all the Fvwm team, and to Mr. Rob Nation who started to
code a nice wm.

--
H.Peraza <[email-masked]>
D.Barth <[email-masked]> (http://ltiwww.epfl.ch/~barth)
--
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---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:07:31 -0500

>>>>> "David" == David Barth <[email-masked]> writes:

David> H.Peraza and I made a quick hack around fvwm2.

When I saw that Subject line, a horrified shudder ran down my
spine... :) As everyone has probably gathered from my previous posts,
I really hate WinXX (any version).

But, my officemate really likes Win95, so I grabbed it and he's trying
your hack right now.  Now that I've seen it, I feel like I can make
some comments.  The first one being, that it looks interesting.  I can
see why some people find that appearance visually pleasing.

David> This way, we hope to free the fvwm TODO list from the MS-windowish
David> requests.

Which is good, because I probably won't incorporate a lot of them.
But, some of them WILL be in the next beta release (out in the next
few days):

        - pixmaps for titlebar buttons
        - patch for better popups from modules (which would improve
          the Start button popup), and the patch for caching the menu
          xpms

I might be willing (if it's not too difficult and bloating) to add to
the foregound background specifiers to allow the titlebar to have a
different color scheme than the borders, which is the only other big
visual difference that I saw (I'm not counting the border style & menu
differences, as they seem pretty minor, so could probably be
overlooked).

....
David> Fvwm95 is a hack based on fvwm2.x. It tries to emulate the good features
David> of a well known product without bloating the regular fvwm code.

Always a good goal, the latter.

David> The main aspects are :
....
David>      A taskbar: find quickly an application window and don't take space
David>      with icon windows;

The task bar module should work fine under fvwm2.x, although it might
require some small mods.

A module could be written to display Win95 style menus, and that'd
work out ok after I add the ability to send arbitrary strings to
modules like was discussed on this list last week (which I plan to do
soon).

David> In the future, we plan to have a desktop/folder metaphor supported by
David> the window manager, as well as improve the current version.

I'm not exactly certain what is meant by that, but if you really wish
to make a specialized Win95 clone (perhaps because you don't think the
changes I'm making will let you get close enough to what you want just
via modules), you might want to do what bowman's author did and just
use fvwm code as a starting point, then make it a whole new
specialized window manager (I'd suggest renaming it if you do so
though) instead of trying to stay in sync w/ fvwm2, which will
probably be difficult.

While I don't want to bloat fvwm code, if I can make it so modules can
be used to get a different look and feel, I think that may be good,
and I'd probably be willing to include the modules in the distribution
(or at least a pointer to them in the FAQ & on the website).

The only problem being that the look might not be 'exact', but I bet
it could be real close.

David> PLEASE NOTE that fvwm-2.x is work in progress, so is fvwm95 too...

Which is why it may difficult for you to stay in sync, especially the
changes I have planned for after the first official release (The Great
Style Flags Rewrite, among other things).

If I can make this be possible via modules (as was discussed in the
past too), it would make your lives easier and give more potential to
fvwm.

Chuck

---

From: "Charles S. Kerr" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:03:55 -0600 (CST)

> modules like was discussed on this list last week (which I plan to do
[snip]
> (or at least a pointer to them in the FAQ & on the website).

I like this idea.  I downloaded fvwm95 and tested it out; I like the
taskbar.  OTOH, I also like the direction that fvwm is moving in and
don't think it's worth it to switch to another wm just for the taskbar.
Optional modules could be much better than having the wasted effort
of two wm's being written just because one has an extra bell or whistle
that the original doesn't.

> past too), it would make your lives easier and give more potential to

Agreed.

Chuck

---

From: Frank Weis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:16:28 +0200 (MET DST)

> I really hate WinXX (any version).
Me too.
> your hack right now.
Me too.

>           the Start button popup), and the patch for caching the menu
I'd love to have the Pixmaps in the menus, too. I found that really
VERY pleasing.

> The task bar module should work fine under fvwm2.x, although it might
That would be very nice too.

I found this package (fvwm95) very interesting, and I really hope I
will have pixmaps in my menus one day. However, I was unable to
configure fvwm95 to make my windows look like they did before so I
went back to vanilla fvwm. I hope it wont be necessary to make fvwm95
a window manager "on its own"! I'd be very happy if at least parts of
it would be available as add-ons to fvwm in the future, either as
Modules (TaskBar) or as configuration options (Pixmaps in the menus
and window title bars).

Thanks to both teams for this wonderful stuff anyway!
Frank

---

From: Hector Peraza <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:58:06 +0200 (MET DST)

> I'd love to have the Pixmaps in the menus, too. I found that really

With the standard fvwm2 you can have also the pixmaps in the menus (the 
vvwm95 menu code is the same as in fvwm2). Just use the same syntax 
for the menu items in your .fvwm2rc

> Modules (TaskBar) or as configuration options (Pixmaps in the menus

Yes, the win-95 look and feel in fvwm is hard-coded inside, you cannot
change it back to the standar look with any option. Actually, I started
the hack just as a hobby, because I like the win95 look (although I hate
windows.xx too, and more specifically I hate M$). Then when D.Barth
announced his taskbar I decided to put the whole package in my ftp, so
anybody who likes can use it. 

I didn't want to add the win-95 look and feel as an additional option to
fvwm, because that would increase the memory consumption. Take into
account that the border-drawing routines are different, there are changes
in the menu drawing routines and in the popup code, the title and buttons
placement routines also have changed, some internal structures changed to
make possible to have a different title color scheme than the border, a
new broadcast message was added, etc. Add all that together to the fvwm
code and you finish with... a monster. But all that can change if the idea
of having a module(s) responsible for the window's look and feel success,
as I hope. In that case you just will have to load the module you want,
and voila! 

About the new modules, the idea is to make them work also with the
standard fvwm, but with some of them you might require some patches to
fvwm, because they would need some new special funcion from fvwm. 

Regards,
Hector Peraza.