Subject: FVWM: Fvwm 2 next release. State of play?

From: [email-masked] (David Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 01:01:15 +0100

Hello?

Anyone here? Its all gone quiet(ish).

Seriously, what happened to the promised flurry of activity on 
pushing out the next fvwm2 beta? I seem to have been waiting for
bated breath for a week or two now, unless of course our mail went
non-linear again. If I have missed a batch or two or mail I'm
sorry.

So, Chuck, did things go 'Horribly Wrong (tm)'? And is Jarl still
about or have the men in green dragged him away yet? And if he is
here have you/are you working on/can you do proper rotated text for
the titlebar-down patch before you leave? (I don't want it but another
couple of fvwm users here love it.)

While I'm talking about new releases is there any sign of progress on
that popular wish list feature which I am also awaiting - StartsOnPage?

-- 
David Kennedy, Dept. of Pure & Applied Physics, Queen's University of Belfast
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From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:46:54 -0400

>>>>> "DK" == David Kennedy <[email-masked]> writes:

DK> Hello?
DK> Anyone here? Its all gone quiet(ish).

I'm still here, physically if not mentally.

DK> Seriously, what happened to the promised flurry of activity on
DK> pushing out the next fvwm2 beta?

Answered below.

DK> I seem to have been waiting for bated breath for a week or two
DK> now, unless of course our mail went non-linear again. If I have
DK> missed a batch or two or mail I'm sorry.

It has been real quiet, actually, unless I'm missing mail too.

DK> So, Chuck, did things go 'Horribly Wrong (tm)'?

Actually, yes.  Which is why things have been delayed.  I had a list
of about 30 items that I was trying to get into this next release, and
I have about 15 of them done and a few partially done.  They all would
have been ready, but I was hit with a coredump that resulted from
trying to merge in too many patches at once (all of which had to be
done by hand).  I just figured out the problem this past Wednesday.

So, I think I'm going to release it later today (provided my final
tests go ok) minus the stuff I didn't finish, since it's taken much
longer than anticipated.  I'll just move those others into the next
beta release.

DK> And is Jarl still about or have the men in green dragged him away
DK> yet?

Haven't a clue on that one.  I haven't heard from him since I
contacted him about some problems w/ FvwmButtons under AIX.

DK> And if he is here have you/are you working on/can you do proper
DK> rotated text for the titlebar-down patch before you leave?  (I
DK> don't want it but another couple of fvwm users here love it.)

I guess that was meant for Jarl to answer...

DK> While I'm talking about new releases is there any sign of progress
DK> on that popular wish list feature which I am also awaiting -
DK> StartsOnPage?

Nope.  That one won't happen until after the first official release
and the infamous Great Style Flag Rewrite.

And speaking of the first official release, that's going to happen
soon.  Probably after 2 more betas (this next one, and one more to
finish up what I didn't finish for this one).  It's been put off for
far too long.

Chuck

*******************************************************************************
Charles K. Hines <[email-masked]>
IBM Logic Synthesis developer [BooleDozer (TM)]
Martial Arts Instructor [Modern Arnis, Presas Style Filipino Martial Arts]

IBM Internal email:                        "Go back to sleep, Chuck.  You're
  [email-masked],              just havin' a nightmare--of course,
  HINESC at FISHKILL, HINESC at FSHVMFK1    we are still in Hell." Gary Larson
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From: "Michael J. Carter" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:33:38 -0600 (MDT)

>>>>> "Charles" == Charles Hines <[email-masked]> writes:

    Charles> the infamous Great Style Flag Rewrite.

Will this add functionality or simply reimplement the present
features???

One of our sysadmins can't tear himself from tvtwm because of it's
ability to assign window border, icon and menu entry colors on a
per-menu-item basis.

The other feature he's after is tvtwm's dynamic menus...

mjc

Michael J. Carter              | A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud
[email-masked]               | voice at one end and no responsibility at
Space Data Systems (NIS-3)     | the other.
Los Alamos National Laboratory |
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From: Kai Grossjohann <[email-masked]>
Date: 12 Apr 1996 17:14:29 +0200

>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:33:38 -0600 (MDT), "Michael J. Carter"
>>>>> <[email-masked]> said:

  Michael> Will this add functionality or simply reimplement the
  Michael> present features???

Per se, it won't add anything new, but it is the base needed to
implement more per-window stuff.  For example, it is currently
impossible to specify per-window autoraise (FvwmAuto{,Raise} is an
all-or-nothing kind of thing); after TGSFR it will be rather easy to
add, I gather.

  Michael> One of our sysadmins can't tear himself from tvtwm because
  Michael> of it's ability to assign window border, icon and menu
  Michael> entry colors on a per-menu-item basis.

He's got a menu where the first item is blue and the second is red?
Well... de gustibus non disputandem.

  Michael> The other feature he's after is tvtwm's dynamic menus...

What are dynamic menus?  Haven't used tvtwm in a couple of years now,
but I don't see why one shouldn't be able to do useful stuff with
functions.

With Fvwm you can put menu definitions in a file, then read that file
at run time to have these take effect.  So, you write a shell script
that does:

    echo AddToMenu Bla \"Item\" Exec xterm >> ~/.fvwm/foo-menu

And you can do

    Read ~/.fvwm/foo-menu

from a menu or a keybinding.  This seems to be Turing-complete.  Can
tvtwm do better than this?

kai
--
There ain't no cure for the summertime blues.

---

From: "Michael J. Carter" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:23:59 MDT

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Grossjohann <[email-masked]> writes:

    Kai> With Fvwm you can put menu definitions in a file, then read
    Kai> that file at run time to have these take effect.  So, you
    Kai> write a shell script that does:

    Kai>     echo AddToMenu Bla \"Item\" Exec xterm >>
    Kai> ~/.fvwm/foo-menu

    Kai> And you can do

    Kai>     Read ~/.fvwm/foo-menu

    Kai> from a menu or a keybinding.  This seems to be
    Kai> Turing-complete.  Can tvtwm do better than this?

"He" says that tvtwm does a fstat() on a 'menu file', and if it has
changed, the new version is read without the need to push a button. I
must admit it is more elegant....

Michael J. Carter              | It is not true that life is one damn thing
[email-masked]               | after another -- it's one damn thing over
Space Data Systems (NIS-3)     | and over. -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
Los Alamos National Laboratory |
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From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:30:23 -0400

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael J Carter <[email-masked]> writes:

Michael> "He" says that tvtwm does a fstat() on a 'menu file', and if
Michael> it has changed, the new version is read without the need to
Michael> push a button. I must admit it is more elegant....

How about this:

######################################################################
Mouse 2 R MC DynamicMenu

AddToMenu DMenu "Dynamic Menu" Title

AddToFunc DynamicMenu "I" DestroyMenu "DMenu"
+ "I" Read .fvwm2rc-dynmenu
+ "I" Popup DMenu
######################################################################

It reads the file every time, regardless of whether it changed or not,
but it accomplishes basically the same thing.

Chuck

---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:34:14 -0400

>>>>> "CH" == Charles Hines <[email-masked]> writes:

CH> How about this:

CH> ######################################################################
CH> Mouse 2 R MC DynamicMenu

CH> AddToMenu DMenu "Dynamic Menu" Title

CH> AddToFunc DynamicMenu "I" DestroyMenu "DMenu"
CH> + "I" Read .fvwm2rc-dynmenu
CH> + "I" Popup DMenu
CH> ######################################################################

CH> It reads the file every time, regardless of whether it changed or not,
CH> but it accomplishes basically the same thing.

Opps - forgot to include .fvwm2rc-dynmenu:

######################################################################
AddToMenu DMenu "Dynamic Menu" Title
+ "Rlogin" Module FvwmForm Rlogin
+ "QuitVerify" Module FvwmForm QuitVerify
######################################################################

Of course, it could contain whatever you want.

Chuck

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:12:34 -0400

----------
> Well... de gustibus non disputandem.

Actually, fvwm2 will let  you get a  similar effect in the popup menus
by using  mini-pixmaps  in the menus.    Just vary the   colors of the
pixmaps.

--
Dan Espen                                    Phone: (908) 699-5570
[email-masked]
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214
Piscataway, NJ 08854
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From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:46:52 -0400

Michael> Will this add functionality or simply reimplement the present
Michael> features???

Both - It will reimplement in order to be able to add more
functionality.

Chuck

---

From: "Brandon M. Browning" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT)

> Michael> push a button. I must admit it is more elegant....
<snip of dynamic menu code>
> but it accomplishes basically the same thing.

Yes, I've tried that and found that I really didn't like it.  Why?  It's
too bloody slow (at least on my system).  Instead of popping the menu
instantaneously, it'd take a second or two.  Not my idea of fun,
especially when I'm working.  Oh, but I have another solution.  This one
isn't as elegant (or maybe it is), but I've run across something that
might be a potential bug.

I wanted "dynamic" menus as well because I tend to stay logged into X a
lot.  When I want to add a new entry (usually an application), I had to
restart when all I really wanted to do is reread the menu.  Rereading the
menus every time like Chuck's example defeats the purpose for me because I
don't make that many changes to my menu.

Well, by using DestroyMenu and Read, I'm able to reread all the menus when
I want to.  Yes, one has to destroy them all to reread them.  And herein
lies the problem.  Here's my function:

  AddToFunc ReadMenus "I" DestroyMenu Applications
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Commands
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Games
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Modules
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Remote-Logins
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Shells
  +    "I" DestroyMenu Utilities
  +    "I" Read .menu-applications
  +    "I" Read .menu-commands
  +    "I" Read .menu-games
  +    "I" Read .menu-modules
  +    "I" Read .menu-remotelogins
  +    "I" Read .menu-shells
  +    "I" Read .menu-utilities

(each .menu-* is a AddToMenu); and I've added:

  +       "Reread Menus"          ReadMenus

in menu binding.  Then, when I've made a change, I can just select "Reread
Menus" and FVWM dutifully rereads the menu set.  This isn't the problem
(it works wonderfully & quick, too).  The problem is that if I try to
reread the menus and I've changed *nothing* in them, FVWM takes down the
entire X session.  So ... if anything has been changed in any of those
menu files, I'm okay.  If I accidently reread and nothing has been
changed....  well, i'm outta luck.

Is this supposed to happen, or did I just find an elusive bug?  FWIW, I'm
running Linux 1.2.13 & the latest beta of FVWM...

-- Brandon Browning                                                          )
   Powertie Software                                                        (
   http://www.powertie.org/                                                c[]
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