Subject: FVWM: New to fvwm2...where did this go?

From: "Lance Pickup" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 15:53:03 -0400

Hello,

  I just recently upgraded to fvwm2.  I am as pleased with the improvement
over fvwm as I was with fvwm over mwm.  It's just amazing!

  Most things from the fvwm config file mapped over nicely to the fvwm2,
albeit they became Style parameters as opposed to standalone commands.
One thing which has apparently disappeared though is OpaqueResize.  I
cannot find the equivalent to this.  Did it disappear?  This particular
command would be an excellent thing to do on a window-by-window basis
(there are only a few things I want to resize "opaquely", so if this
were a new Style command somehow, I would be very pleased.

  Also Chuck, awhile back I reported my wish to not have the click of the
mouse which brings the window into focus (I use ClickToFocus on most
windows) be passed through to the window itself.  You mentioned that it
would be an easy fix and even supplied a patch I believe.  Did this ever
make it into the production code?

  Lastly, according to the pl35 man page, there is an undocumented
option that I am curious about: SkipMapping/ShowMapping.  What's this?

  Thanks,

    ...Lance

Lance Pickup                VNET/IBM Internet: lpickup@btv
Modeling Automation                  Internet: [email-masked]
IBM Microelectronics
Burlington, VT                          Phone: (802) 769-7104 (tie 446)

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From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:37:25 -0400

>>>>> "Lance" == Lance Pickup <[email-masked]> writes:

Lance> Hello,
Lance>   I just recently upgraded to fvwm2.  I am as pleased with the
Lance> improvement over fvwm as I was with fvwm over mwm.  It's just
Lance> amazing!

Lance>   Most things from the fvwm config file mapped over nicely to
Lance> the fvwm2, albeit they became Style parameters as opposed to
Lance> standalone commands.  One thing which has apparently
Lance> disappeared though is OpaqueResize.  I cannot find the
Lance> equivalent to this.  Did it disappear?  This particular command
Lance> would be an excellent thing to do on a window-by-window basis
Lance> (there are only a few things I want to resize "opaquely", so if
Lance> this were a new Style command somehow, I would be very pleased.

OpaqueResize is gone.  It was an interesting feature, but needed a
really good X server & hardware to be used.  It might resurface, who
knows?  I can put it on the TO-DO list, if people really want to see
it back.

Lance>   Also Chuck, awhile back I reported my wish to not have the
Lance> click of the mouse which brings the window into focus (I use
Lance> ClickToFocus on most windows) be passed through to the window
Lance> itself.  You mentioned that it would be an easy fix and even
Lance> supplied a patch I believe.  Did this ever make it into the
Lance> production code?

Sort of - it's commented out right now.  I will bring it to life after
I go through the gruelling task of 'fixing' the way that window
attribute flags are handled to allow more than 32 Style commands,
which I have some good ideas for and is the first thing I plan to do
after getting the first official release of 2.xx out to the world
(soon).  For now, you can compile it in yourself -> around line 927 of
events.c there is a '#if 1' -> just change that to a 0.

Lance>   Lastly, according to the pl35 man page, there is an
Lance> undocumented option that I am curious about:
Lance> SkipMapping/ShowMapping.  What's this?

You know, I just looked through all the source code, and it's not used
anywhere.  That must have been something that Rob was going to
implement, but never did, or was implemented and then later removed.
I don't know what it was supposed to be.  I'll ask Rob.

Chuck

*******************************************************************************
Charles K. Hines
IBM Logic Synthesis developer [BooleDozer (TM)]
and Martial Arts Instructor [Modern Arnis, Presas Style Filipino Martial Arts]

Internet e-mail:     [email-masked]

IBM Internal e-mail: [email-masked]   (preferred from workstation)
                     HINESC at FISHKILL       (preferred from mainframe)
                     HINESC at FSHVMFK1       (discouraged, but I'll get it)

*******************************************************************************
 "dis ting could have possabiwities if I put my twisted widdle mind to it!"
                                                        - Bugs Bunny

 "I have a paper plate in my head because they were all out of the metal ones"
                                                        - Rick Overton
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From: [email-masked] (John Henders)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:45:34 -0700 (PDT)

> knows?  I can put it on the TO-DO list, if people really want to see

I sure miss it. It's easy to get used to on a standalone X box, and was
quite fast on my 486/80 with an old ATI gup.

On another track, has anyone using click-focus found that occasionally
when you click on any window border to move or resize it, the window
"sticks" to the mouse? I've had this happen about once every 2 days, but
I can't reproduce it reliably.

-- 
      Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
                GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
                     b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 13:39:19 +0900

chuck_hines> You know, I just looked through all the source code, and
chuck_hines> it's not used anywhere.  That must have been something
chuck_hines> that Rob was going to implement, but never did, or was
chuck_hines> implemented and then later removed.  I don't know what it
chuck_hines> was supposed to be.  I'll ask Rob.

I suppose SkipMapping/ShowMapping feature is:

	Assume window 'X' is specified as 'ShowMapping', currently
	fvwm shows 'desktop 0' to display, and window 'X' is intended
	to come up to 'desktop 1' by using 'StartsOnDesk' or whatever.

	When I wakeup 'X', fvwm changes desktop to 'desktop 1'. Yes,
	this is the current behavior of fvwm.

	But if window 'X' is specified as 'SkipMapping', fvwm does not
	change desktop (i.e., still shows 'desktop 0'), but window 'X'
	appears to 'desktop 1' (of course it doesn't see to display).

Wow! it's an interesting feature. Anyone implements ? Specification is
clearly defined :-)

- -
Makoto 'MAR_kun' MATSUSHITA
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From: "Lance Pickup" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 07:28:10 -0400

>knows?  I can put it on the TO-DO list, if people really want to see

  Actually it works really well on some applications (and is very useful
as well).  I'm thinking of things like text editors where, for example,
you have long lines and you want to make the window JUST big enough
without having to make it too big first and then shrink it back down.
And I don't consider my hardware especially high-end (it is good though)
but OpaqueResize worked quite well on it.

  If added as a Style option (if possible) then that would be really
ideal since I could easily limit it to those applications where it made
sense.

  Thanks!

    ...Lance

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Nation 885-9815)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 08:56:56 EDT

>I don't know what it was supposed to be.  I'll ask Rob.

The show/skip mapping option gets set as the flag SHOW_MAPPING in style.c

This gets copied over into the flag in the FvwmWindow structure, and renamed
to SHOW_ON_MAPPING in add_window.c (look for ALL_COMMON_FLAGS). It is used
to cause/prevent the window manager to change to the desktop of a new window
that is mapping for the first time.

Rob

---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:55:35 -0400

>>>>> "John" == John Henders <[email-masked]> writes:

>> knows?  I can put it on the TO-DO list, if people really want to see

John> I sure miss it. It's easy to get used to on a standalone X box,
John> and was quite fast on my 486/80 with an old ATI gup.

Ok, I got more than enough notes from people who want it back.  After
I fix the Style flags to allow more than 32, I'll make sure it gets
brought back.

John> On another track, has anyone using click-focus found that
John> occasionally when you click on any window border to move or
John> resize it, the window "sticks" to the mouse? I've had this
John> happen about once every 2 days, but I can't reproduce it
John> reliably.

I know about this, and see it quite often.  I believe it has to do
with Motion being done with a timeout instead of a MotionThreshold
value.  If a window takes a long time to refresh while raising, fvwm
thinks it was actually a Motion instead of a Click, and tries to move
or resize the window.  I already plan to make Motion work off of a
MotionThreshold variable instead sometime in the near future (after
the first official release).

Chuck

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Nation 885-9815)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 09:03:21 EDT

>ideal since I could easily limit it to those applications where it made

Like OpaqueMove, this has as much to do with the windows UNDERNEATH the 
window you're resizing as it does with the window that you're actually 
resizing. They must keep redrawing themselves too.

I have never found a machine where OpaqueResize was acceptable. It always 
caused a lot of annoying flickering. This was mostly tested on Sparc-10's.

Rob

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Nation 885-9815)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 08:59:16 EDT

>Wow! it's an interesting feature. Anyone implements ? Specification is

You're right about the definition of the function. I believe that it has
been implemented for ages.

Rob

---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:16:16 -0400

>>>>> "Rob" == Robert Nation 885-9815 <[email-masked]> writes:

>> Wow! it's an interesting feature. Anyone implements ? Specification is

Rob> You're right about the definition of the function. I believe that
Rob> it has been implemented for ages.

I'll add Matushita-san's description to the man page, if it's not
already in there (I didn't see it, but I might have messed up my grep
there too...)

Chuck

---

From: <[email-masked]> (Charles Hines)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:14:55 -0400

>> I don't know what it was supposed to be.  I'll ask Rob.

Rob> The show/skip mapping option gets set as the flag SHOW_MAPPING in
Rob> style.c

I found that much, but didn't find any other references to the
SHOW_MAPPING flag in the code.

Rob> This gets copied over into the flag in the FvwmWindow structure,
Rob> and renamed to SHOW_ON_MAPPING in add_window.c (look for
Rob> ALL_COMMON_FLAGS). It is used to cause/prevent the window manager
Rob> to change to the desktop of a new window that is mapping for the
Rob> first time.

Ah, Ok, that would explain why I didn't find SHOW_MAPPING anywhere
else. :)  I feel a little silly now.

Thanks,
Chuck

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 01:21:20 +0900

rnation> You're right about the definition of the function. I believe
rnation> that it has been implemented for ages.

Umm.. sorry for misunderstanding. Now I see pre2.0pl36 source again,
and confirm that ShowMapping/SkipMapping is already defined.

- -

---

From: Timothy Demarest (ITD) <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 11:40:31 +0900

> knows?  I can put it on the TO-DO list, if people really want to see

*Sniff* I liked it...  Count 1 vote from me to add it back in.

  > I don't know what it was supposed to be.  I'll ask Rob.

AGH!  Please dont mess with this one - I use it all of the time!
Basically it is a style that allows you selectively turn on/off
switching desktops when a window is being mapped.

For instance, I have two desktops:  Main and Mail.  When I start fvwm,
an xtermand some other stuff it started on Main.  On Mail, I start
emacs and exmh.  I have the SkipMapping style set for emacs and exmh
so when they start, fvwm doesnt jump to the Mail desktop and then back
to the Main desktop.  It makes them start up "in the background".  I
thought the jumping back and forth when windows are being mapped is
real ugly.

Here is the style line for my exmh and emacs:

Style "?macs"       Icon gnu-animal.xpm, StartsOnDesk 1, NoButton 2,
  SkipMapping
Style "?xmh"        Icon mail1.xpm, StartsOnDesk 1, NoButton 2, SkipMapping

Here is an excerpt from two messages from Rob Nation (2nd and 3rd of
August) on this issue:

>You need to set the SHOW_ON_MAP flag which exists in fvwm. There seems to 
>be no way to set this in current versions of fvwm, other than by changing the
>source code.

and...

>>Do you think it would be possible to add this to a future release of
>>fvwm so you can do this in the .fvwmrc rather than modifying the
>>source code?  It would be nice to have the option to SHOW_MAP or
>>SKIP_MAP on a selective basis!

>Actually, its obscure, but it was already there. There were
>styles ShowMapping and SkipMapping that did the job.

Hope this helps.

Tim

Timothy Demarest            Radiation Effects Research Foundation (RERF)
[email-masked]         Department of Information Technology
CIS: 100212,562             5-2 Hijiyama Park, Minami-ku Hiroshima 732, Japan
[\+] Support DAN!           http://www.rerf.or.jp/~demarest/NewChiba.html

---

From: Peter Funk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:08:28 +0100 (MEZ)

rn> >  If added as a Style option (if possible) then that would be really
rn> >ideal since I could easily limit it to those applications where it made
rn> >sense.
rn> 
rn> 
rn> Like OpaqueMove, this has as much to do with the windows UNDERNEATH the 
rn> window you're resizing as it does with the window that you're actually 
rn> resizing. They must keep redrawing themselves too.
rn> 
rn> I have never found a machine where OpaqueResize was acceptable. It always 
rn> caused a lot of annoying flickering. This was mostly tested on Sparc-10's.

I've enabled 'OpaqueResize' in fvwm 1.24r for some weeks and I am
very pleased with the results.

BTW: My machine is a 90 MHz PCI bus Pentium PC with an ELSA Winner
2000 4MB graphics board running the Accelerated X server from Xinside
in 24 bpp tru color mode with 1152 x 990 resolution under SCO Unix.
I don't believe, that this kind of machine will be so much faster than
a Sun sparc-10 risc machine.  

IMHO the flickering (expose events handled by xterm, ghostview, etc)
are not annoying.  I'am guessing the effective frame rate is something
about 5-10 fps, which is pretty good enough.  Mosaic seems to be a
little bit slower, may be because of its Motif geometry management,
which has to recalculate a lot of widget positions.

Regards, Peter
-=-=-
Peter Funk, Oldenburger Str.86, D-27777 Ganderkesee, Germany
office: +49 421 2041925 (ArtCom GmbH, Grazer Str.8, D-28359 Bremen)
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc
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