Subject: RE: FVWM: Help! Windows keep dying on me...

From: "Dameron, Gregg" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:05:50 -0700

> Ryan Daly <[email-masked]> writes:
> > Hello all,
> ...
> > Other issues arise while running that same PolicyEditor 
> window, and then
> > bringing up RM6 (Sun's RAID manager).  The initial window is OK, but
> > after opening up any of the other windows (Configuration, Status,
> > Recovery, etc.) and moving the mouse over one of the 
> buttons near the
> > top of the window, that window dies.

...

> Regarding RM6, I spent many hours trying to debug that problem
> earlier this year.  I don't remember the details, but you should be
> able to find the excruciating details in the archives.

See "Premature close of OpenInterface GUI" thread, November-December
2002.  Bottom line:  It's an RM6 problem.  RM6 is an OpenInterface-based
GUI, with some very unconventional windowing behavior.  For example, if
no window manager is running, the RM6 windows will unilaterally decorate
themselves using pseudo-MWM-style decorations (rather arrogant behavior,
to my way of thinking).  The problem has been reported to Sun, but they
were disinclined to open a bug report - since RM6 works fine under dtwm,
olwm and twm, they would only sign up for opening a "request for
enhancement".  We didn't pursue it here, so chances are good it's still
broken.

Gregg Dameron
--
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---

From: Ryan Daly <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:15:17 -0500

> enhancement".  We didn't pursue it here, so chances are good it's still

That's not acceptable.

I understand it may be a RM6 problem, or a Checkpoint problem (their 
windows cause the same behavior), or an EMC problem (their GUI seems to 
have problems, too), but why are other window managers able to handle 
the problem and not FVWM?

It's forcing people like me to have to abandon FVWM, which sucks, but I 
have no choice.  I can't work on the things I need to work on if the 
windows don't stay up.
--

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:37:51 -0500

> have no choice.  I can't work on the things I need to work on if the 

Not acceptable?

Here's the bottom line on what we found out,
and this should give you some idea of how hard we tried:

http://www.hpc.uh.edu/fvwm/archive/0212/msg00286.html

What remains is for someone (not me) to report this problem
to the vendor.  You can go to Sun, or anyone else distributing
RM6.  I believe the software originates with LSI.

If you have any suggestions on how to fix Fvwm, let us know.

-- 
Dan Espen                           E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:30:36 +0000

> the problem and not FVWM?

Unfortunately I can't help here, and I am not familar with the situation,
since I (happily) don't use propretary programs myself.

If I understand what Gregg Dameron said, this application has some
conditions looking like this:

  if (WM_DETECTED)
      do this
  else
      do something different

If the condition detects twm and dtwm, but not fvwm, then the application
executes different code under different window managers. This does not
say anything about window managers, this only says the detection code in
the application is probably buggy. It is not fvwm that closes windows,
they die because of some incorrect premise causing internal errors.

> have no choice.  I can't work on the things I need to work on if the 

You may try again to convince the application owners that this is their
bug, and they should fix some code in the application.

A similar attitude is seen on some web sites that are only written to
work with Internet Explorer. If you ask the site owners, they will answer
other browsers are broken (because they tested all browsers they have,
i.e. IE5, IE6 and it worked) and never suggest their site code is broken.

I understand your frustration. I am really happy I may live without sites
that require IE only. I don't know what I whould do then.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Ryan Daly <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:26:04 -0500

> If you have any suggestions on how to fix Fvwm, let us know.

I'm no developer!

I'm frustrated, though.  I'm not trying to put the blame on the FVWM 
developers by any means so please don't take it that way.  I'm just 
saying that if other window managers can handle these situations, why 
can't FVWM handle them?

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:40:02 -0500

> saying that if other window managers can handle these situations, why 

Read what we did, all the details of what we found are available.

If you want this to work, send a problem report to Sun.
If I had the software installed at work, I would qualify to file
a bug report, but I don't.

Someone that is a registered user of RM6 has to take the initiative.

Someone here will probably be  willing to change  Fvwm, if thats whats
needed, but we have no idea what to change.

---

From: Ryan Daly <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:32:51 -0500

> needed, but we have no idea what to change.

I'd be willing to do whatever to help you guys out.  All I need to know 
is what to do.  I'm not sure I'd know what you're looking for anyway, so 
it'd be best if you guided me through.

I did notice that the PolicyEditor (from Checkpoint Firewall-1) seems to 
be the cause of the problems for me.  When I have that application 
running, it will not allow me to start the GUI from EMC for their backup 
product.  It's also when I have this PolicyEditor up when RM6 starts 
acting up.  Individually they're OK (I think).

Let me know what I can do to help.  Even if it's an application problem, 
maybe I can help you find out a protection against the windows dying.