Subject: FVWM: fvwm man page in HTML?

From: Gert Brinkmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:27:40 +0200

Hello,

I think the fvwm man page is to complex for reading and searching 
through only one continous document. IMHO it would be much better to 
split it into several sub pages. E.g. each of the paragraphs like 
"Commands for menus", "Commands affecting window movement and 
placement", etc. should be on an own page. References could be done as 
links as in HTML. Also a good index about all pages (perhaps including 
the modules' man pages) would be great.

So my question: Does there exist such an HTML-issue of the 
documentation? Or is there a good tool that converts man pages to html 
pages including splitting it up into several pages?

Thank you,

Gert

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:36:55 +0000

> pages including splitting it up into several pages?

You may try to write such splitting script yourself. Start with:

  http://www.fvwm.org/documentation/manpages/unstable/?theme=plain

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Johan Svedberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:43:25 +0200

> the modules' man pages) would be great.

I totally agree. The manual is way to big for just one document.
Splitting it up would help to new users to get a better overview of
availible features/commands. I think this has been discussed before, or
am I wrong?

-- 
Johan Svedberg, [email-masked], http://www.acc.umu.se/~winkle

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:01:31 -0400

> availible features/commands. I think this has been discussed before, or

It was discussed before.

If enough fvwm-workers agree, I'll volunteer to split
up the man page.  Its too big for me too.

-- 
Dan Espen                           E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: Uwe Pross <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:10:38 +0200

Hi there,

> up the man page.  Its too big for me too.

I think it is better to make a simple script which spilts the
output from man2html. So the original man remains untached.

Regards, Uwe
-- 
  ,_,  Uwe Pross
 (O,O) mailto:[email-masked]
 (   ) http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~uwp
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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:41:21 +0000

> output from man2html. So the original man remains untached.

For me the best solution is to use dhtml (with active "+" or "-"), not
multiple pages, i.e. to show only sections initially, then a user may
open and close any section as he likes. Or maybe the default is to open
all sections for small man pages.

Not very hard to add such dhtml to the existing html.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Catherine Luedecker <[email-masked]>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 08:27:01 -0700

I would agree that the man page is quite a bit to get thru.  I went to
my local library to print out the pages and it was quite a huge task. 

I think what is hardest for me is understanding what all those commands
and options really do.  I still am not using fvwm as my everyday window
manager because I am trying to get thru all of the options to make it
just perfect. I know that there are other ways around it but if I cant
understand it, I cant use it.

Cat

---

From: Jake Colman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:44:51 -0400

Just to ad my two cents to this, I found the fvwm documentation overwhelming
and not terribly useful to someone trying to get it configured from scratch.
I am coming at this as a computer professional with a great deal of
expertise with computers, software, and programming.  I had to hack my way
through this by starting with an existing configuration, taking what worked
to my liking on blind faith, and tweaking what I wanted changed. I still have
no idea what many options mean exactly or what the ramifications would be of
a switching values.  There is really no easy way to figure this out.  It is
also no clear what the various modules do or how/why I would use them.  I
think some form of startup guide would immensly useful.

On the positive side, the support here is tremendous and my questions are
usually answered quickly and concisely with the exact information I need.

...Jake

>>>>> "CL" == Catherine Luedecker <[email-masked]> writes:

   CL> I would agree that the man page is quite a bit to get thru.  I went to
   CL> my local library to print out the pages and it was quite a huge task. 

   CL> I think what is hardest for me is understanding what all those commands
   CL> and options really do.  I still am not using fvwm as my everyday window
   CL> manager because I am trying to get thru all of the options to make it
   CL> just perfect. I know that there are other ways around it but if I cant
   CL> understand it, I cant use it.

   CL> Cat

   CL> --
   CL> Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL: http://www.fvwm.org/>.
   CL> To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a
   CL> message to [email-masked].
   CL> To report problems, send mail to [email-masked].

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                  Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center               Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: [email-masked]
Jersey City, NJ 07311                  www.principiapartners.com
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From: Gert Brinkmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:41:49 +0200

> output from man2html. So the original man remains untached.

I think an automatically parted document will not have the quality as an 
manually structured one. Also reference links will not be possible as I 
guess. Also all fvwm modules could be covered in this single 
html-document, too.

The only advantage of the currently existing man page is, that it is 
quickly opened (you just need an open shell) and that you easily can 
search through the whole document. But IMHO this advantage is not big 
enough to vote for the man page solution.

But ok, when I have time I will test the quality of the result of man2html.

Gert

---

From: Gert Brinkmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:56:15 +0200

> my local library to print out the pages and it was quite a huge task. 

Well, if you wanted to print an html-Version of the document it would 
not be less...

btw.: Perhaps the best solution would be an abstract sgml or xml 
document that could be converted to html, ps, pdf and probably man?

> manager because I am trying to get thru all of the options to make it

This exactly is my current situation. Also I am missing the quick resize 
of an window via ALT+RightMouse as in KDE, icewm, windowmaker.

> just perfect. 

It never will be perfect. You should configure the basic elements and 
then use fvwm. You will see what is missing and can add this 
funtionality in a growing matter.

> I know that there are other ways around it but if I cant

Yes, ok. But you will understand it better while you are using it. ;)

Gert

---

From: Gert Brinkmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:00:28 +0200

> Not very hard to add such dhtml to the existing html.

I do not like this idea. The loading of the page would take some time 
even if you exactly know which small section of the document you need. 
Also it probably will not work in dillo or lynx, etc. The html-source 
should be kept as simple as possible. Perhaps there could be used some 
simple, but optional stylesheets to offer different document-"themes".

Gert

---

From: Uwe Pross <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:52:51 +0200

Hi there,

On 12 Jun 2003 at 10:41:49 +0200, Gert Brinkmann wrote:

> I think an automatically parted document will not have the
> quality as an manually structured one. Also reference
> links will not be possible as I guess. 

It depends on the smartness of the spliting tool and the
format of the document to split. I think it should be
possible to write a perl or awk script which can handle the
the output of man2html quite well and make different parts
of it. Reference links need to be adapted.  
In my opinion we need a tool for this since we can split the
files by hand each time.

> Also all fvwm modules could be covered in this single
> html-document, too.

That's the different approach but may be discussed.

Regards, Uwe