Subject: FVWM: adding GNOME to old FVWM setup (and adapting to change)

From: Daniel Barclay <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:06:18 -0500

Can any of you FVWM users out there provide pointers to a long-time
(though limited) FVWM user who's finally trying to upgrade to GNOME 
(but still use FVWM as the window manager)?

Maybe things like:

1. How far will I get with FVWM 2.4.6 (Debian's version 2.4.6-2 in woody)?

2. Can I get FVWM to account for the GNOME panels when placing windows?

3. Can I force the GNOME panels to act like regular windows (temporarily
   until I learn to control GNOME) e.g., take window decorations so I
   can manipulate them in general, or lower when I issue a function-key
   sequence?

Also, does anyone have any pointers to GNOME documentation regarding 
how to avoid wasting so much screen real estate (the two-row bar at the
bottom plus the menu bar at the top of the screen)?

Thanks,
Daniel
-- 
Daniel Barclay
[email-masked]

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---

From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:50:36 -0500 (EST)

> (but still use FVWM as the window manager)?

I do it all the time.

> 1. How far will I get with FVWM 2.4.6 (Debian's version 2.4.6-2 in woody)?

should go pretty far, but I suggest posibly running a recent cvs snapshot. 
They're very stable for me and work well.

> 2. Can I get FVWM to account for the GNOME panels when placing windows?

Sure, you can get fvwm to ignore or obey all sorts of GNOME hints. Just 
read the manual.

>    can manipulate them in general, or lower when I issue a function-key

See question 2. It's all covered somewhere in the docs :-)

> bottom plus the menu bar at the top of the screen)?

GNOME is very pointy clicky. Just click your right mouse button on all 
sorts of stuff. Actually, I used to have two regular panels. I kept one 
open at my top left with the FVWM pager swallowed as well as a button for 
an xterm, mozilla, and a clock. Then one at the lower left which had a 
"Mini Commander" (really useful actually :-), a gnome programs menu, and a 
volume control all with the panel set to auto-hide. 

It was a pretty sweet setup all in all. I believe there's a screen shot of 
it on the FVWM website. Just look for my name :-) Gnome 1.x worked really 
well with fvwm2. There's a  control panel somewhere which will let you add 
fvwm2 as an available window manager and then switch to it. 

I HIGHLY recommend installing Ximian GNOME. It's a better distro of GNOME 
on top of your linux distro. They have install methods for each of the 
distributions. Just check out www.ximian.com ... It will save you TONS of 
time and frustration. Just make sure you have some nice bandwidth.

If you make mistakes or wanna start fresh, just delete all your .gnome* 
dirs, your .nautilus*, and some other things you don't recognize. 
Actually, it might help to have a list of your dot-files before you 
install this so you'll know what to delete once you know how to set things 
up right :-)

One thing that is a shame is that GNOME 2.x removed the swallow ability 
from the panel. I really loved the fact that I could use FVWM's pager with 
gnome. Now if I wanna use it, I've either gotta write a gnome-applet 
version (I'm really considering learning C to do this), or just run it 
outside of a panel (not at all elegant). 

One thing to remember: FVWM's Pager has got to be the best in the world 
:-)
			-peace

-- 
Let he who is without clue kiss my ass

---

From: Sam Izzo <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:14:24 +1100

> bottom plus the menu bar at the top of the screen)?

On my system I use only one gnome panel, at the top of my screen.  I have its
size set to "Tiny (24 pixels)".  In it I have icons to launch some common
applications along with the gnome "Main Menu" icon, a mail check applet (set to
display either "No mail" or "x messages"), a gnomeicu (ICQ clone) applet, a
mixer applet, and a clock.  I find that this gives me everything that I need
without wasting too much space.  I'm running in 1024x768.

Have a look at http://www.humbug.net/shot1.png for an example (~100k).  I use
gnome 1.4 but I don't imagine it would be too drastically different in gnome 2.

sam

---

From: Sam Izzo <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:53:24 +1100

> One thing to remember: FVWM's Pager has got to be the best in the world 

Here here, I heartily agree! :-)

sam

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:49:49 +0100

> They're very stable for me and work well.

Ah, the snapshots are really not this stable.  He will be better
of with the 2.4.13 release.

> Sure, you can get fvwm to ignore or obey all sorts of GNOME hints. Just 

Try

  Style * GnomeIgnoreHints

or

  Style * GnomeUseHints

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

 --
Dominik Vogt, [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
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---

From: Daniel Barclay <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:54:46 -0500

> From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>

> Sure, you can get fvwm to ignore or obey all sorts of GNOME hints. Just 

What manual?  (The manual page?  It (in 2.4.6) doesn't seem to say much 
about that.  Something else?)

> I HIGHLY recommend installing Ximian GNOME. ...
>  Just check out www.ximian.com ... It will save you TONS of 
> time and frustration. ...

Thanks.

> install this so you'll know what to delete once you know how to set things 

I have a (home-brew) program that scans for new files so I can tell what
an installation or running something created.

Thanks,
Daniel
-- 
Daniel Barclay
[email-masked]

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From: Walter Dnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:46:19 -0500

On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:06:18PM -0500, Daniel Barclay wrote

> (but still use FVWM as the window manager)?

  Suggestion.  Run FVWM as per normal and in...
  - Redhat linux up to 7.3, execute the command "panel" at startup
  - Redhat linux 8.0, execute the command "gnome-panel" at startup

  This gives you the Gnome panel, and the apps/applets if you've
installed them.

-- 
Walter Dnes <[email-masked]>
I'm not repeating myself; I'm an X Window user, I'm an ex-Windows user
Palladium ain't done till linux won't run
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From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:49:11 -0500 (EST)

> about that.  Something else?)

I guess one of the more recent releases. For example:

    With  GNOMEIgnoreHints  fvwm  ignores all GNOME hints for
    the window, even if  GNOME  compliance  is  compiled  in.
    This  is  useful for those pesky applications that try to
    be more clever than the user and use GNOME hints to force
    the window manager to ignore the user's preferences.  The
    GNOMEUseHints style switches back to the  default  behav-
    ior.

Maybe you need one of the newer stable releases.
			-peace

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From: Daniel Barclay <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 20:18:34 -0500

>     the window, even if  GNOME  compliance  is  compiled  in....
...
> Maybe you need one of the newer stable releases.

Actually, I do have that text.  

When you said "all sorts" I thought you meant there were all sorts of
things that could be controlled (separate).

-- 
Daniel Barclay
[email-masked]

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From: Kendrick Vargas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:18:30 -0500 (EST)

> things that could be controlled (separate).

I was referring more to the EWMH stuff which mostly applies to GNOME 2 and 
KDE. GNOME 1 only really has one option, unless you use FvwmGtk to draw 
your menus :-)
			-peace