Subject: FVWM: 2.2.4-4 -> 2.4.3-1 (ramble, errors, etc.)

From: Tenebrae <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:17:04 -0800 (PST)

Holy !@#$, there were a lot of changes!  Where have I been?  Sitting under
a RedHat 6.2 / RPM rock, apparently...
I've just spent the last week reinstalling and setting up my system with a
new hard drive and noticed a couple errors in my .fvwm2rc so I thought I'd
search through my FVWM mailing list archives and see if I could find them.
"All fixed in the new version," they said.  The errors, for the curious,
included a "*FvwmTaskBar: cannot open console" for no reason I could
immediately find, and a failure of my cute little Start button to raise
back up after being clicked.
Well, the upgrade fixed those...
...and launched a whole new set of errors with my dot file.  Sheesh.
Turns out there are all kinds of new functions and features that made my
poor little dot file which was migrated from FVWM 2.2.4-4 from 2.0.46
and before that, fvwm95.  Or something like that.
In other words, there was a ton of obsolete junk in it, and the upgrade
broke my lovely desktop in all kinds of interesting ways.  I just had a
fun night looking at all kinds of man pages, web sites, and other peoples'
dot files from the same version (in particular, thank you Glen Lee Edwards
for posting yours - it was the 8th match in a Yahoo search for .fvwm2rc
and 2.4.3).  The end result is still far from where I want it to be.

If you can offer suggestions on the following points, please do:
1) FvwmButtons doesn't want to stay put like the FvwmTaskbar does.  I
coulda sworn both used to...
2) I get an error message when I start fvwm2.  It says,
"[FVWM][ParseBinding]: <<ERROR>> No such key: Help"
I echo its sentiment.  Help?  Must be some old junk somewhere in my dot
file, but I am having no luck finding it.
3) What's this mysterious ~/.fvwm/ directory that the new version created
for?  Anything in particular that the creators had in mind? 
4) I have to type in ctrl-alt-F1 to view error messages like that and
ctrl-alt-F7 to get back to X.  Is there a way I can have it spit stuff
like that out to a nice little term on my desktop instead?  I hate it when
stuff goes on behind my back and I don't notice those nasty little errors
piling up back there until it's too late...
5) My monitor got burn-in from my last Miyu desktop.  Larva's gloved claw
now graces the background of every window I ever open.  Don't let this
happen to YOU!  

Well, I guess that last one was not something I really need help with,
but...it's 11pm and I'm rambling to hundreds (if not thousands) of people
all over the world right now, so I think it's time for me to get some 
sleep before I wake up to an inbox full of flames to keep me warm on a
frosty Winter morning.
If anyone wants to see my current .fvwm2rc file, let me know.  I try not
to send attachments through e-mail whenever possible.
Happy Holidays...
								-Tenebrae.

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:06:37 +0100

> and 2.4.3).  The end result is still far from where I want it to be.

That's why we wrote a script that converts 2.2.x configs into
2.4.x configs:

  utils/fvwm24_convert

In the source distribution.

> coulda sworn both used to...

What does it do instead?  And what are the responsible lines of
your config file?

> file, but I am having no luck finding it.

Just ignore that message.

> piling up back there until it's too late...

Well, starting a console should be part of your config file.  I
myself start X with

  $ startx 2>&1 | tee $HOME/.X.err

And then run an xterm with 

   Exec xterm -T XMessages -e tail -f $HOME/.X.err

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

-- 
Dominik Vogt, email: [email-masked]
LifeBits Aktiengesellschaft, Albrechtstr. 9, D-72072 Tuebingen
fon: ++49 (0) 7071/7965-0, fax: ++49 (0) 7071/7965-20
--
Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL: http://www.fvwm.org/>.
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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:14:55 -0500

Tenebrae <[email-masked]> writes:
> Holy !@#$, there were a lot of changes!
...

> file, but I am having no luck finding it.

Sun workstations have help keys.  Why all workstations don't is
a mystery.  The binding is built into FVWM.  As Dominik said, ignore
it for now, it will go away with the next release.

> for?  Anything in particular that the creators had in mind? 

FVWM can create these files:

.fvwm2rc
.FvwmAnimate
.FvwmForm
.FvwmForm-Rlogin
(and more)

having them all in $HOME looked like too much of a mess.
The ~/.fvwm directory is meant to hold those files.

-- 
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
--
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---

From: Tenebrae <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:06:49 -0800 (PST)

> In the source distribution.

Thanks!  I'm glad guys like you and Dan are working on fvwm2.
That helped a bit.

> What does it do instead?  And what are the responsible lines of

It lets me grab it and drag it around wherever I want.  I want it to snap
back into position when I let it go, like the FvwmTaskBar does.
As for the responsible lines, well...
Since my dot file is pieced together from various sources, I never quite
learned exactly how every little part worked.
I believe these are the relevant lines:

Style "FvwmButtons"  NoTitle, NoHandles, Sticky, WindowListSkip,BorderWidth 5

#------------------ FvwmButtons (from 2.0.42)
*FvwmButtonsFore Black
*FvwmButtonsBack #c0c0c0
*FvwmButtonsFont -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
# Geometry - really likes to pick its own size, but giving a position is OK
*FvwmButtonsGeometry -5-34
# Layout: specify rows or columns, not both
*FvwmButtonsRows 1
# Pixmap on buttons to match marble GTK theme, tinted to match wallpaper
# - MDM 
*FvwmButtonsPixmap lav_marble.xpm

> Just ignore that message.

Okay...
I hate to see error messages pile up with no resolution, but I guess I'll
have to live with it (for now).

>    Exec xterm -T XMessages -e tail -f $HOME/.X.err

That didn't work out for me.
Using startx with that line gave me "Ambiguous output redirect."

Thanks...
								-Tenebrae.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:27:49 +0100

> back into position when I let it go, like the FvwmTaskBar does.

Try

  Style FvwmButtons FixedPosition

This doesn't prevent it to be resized, though.

> have to live with it (for now).

If you don't want to see that message, locate the file
ConfigFvwmDefaults on your system and remove the line that binds
the Help key.

> Using startx with that line gave me "Ambiguous output redirect."

Hm.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:38:03 -0500

> Thanks!  I'm glad guys like you and Dan are working on fvwm2.

I feel guilty being listed along with Dominik.  Most of my contribution
lately is answering questions.  Dominik, Olivier, and Mikhael
carry most of the load lately.

> back into position when I let it go, like the FvwmTaskBar does.

FvwmButtons won't do that.

> have to live with it (for now).

If you really feel compelled to suppress the message,
download a recent snapshot
-OR-
find
<install-prefix>/share/fvwm/<version>/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults
and remove the help key binding
-OR-
Use xmodmap to assign the keysym "Help" to a key you don't currently
use.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:44:39 -0500

>   Style FvwmButtons FixedPosition

This has been in FVWM since April 99...

I'm going to have to start reading the  man page before I answer every
question.  The capabilities of FVWM are completely out of control.

---

From: Tenebrae <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:49:54 -0800 (PST)

> This doesn't prevent it to be resized, though.

Alrighty.  I think NoHandles will take care of disabling the
ability to resize, though.  That hasn't been a problem.
It's okay if I just tack it onto the end of my current
FvwmButtons style entry like so, right?:

Style "FvwmButtons"  NoTitle, NoHandles, Sticky, WindowListSkip, BorderWidth 5, FixedPosition

Oh, and I guess we don't need the quotes anymore.  I'll have to clean
those all up later.

> ConfigFvwmDefaults on your system and remove the line that binds

# This file gets installed in the "sysconfdir" during fvwm
# installation.  Do not remove or change this file.

Eep!
Well, I commented it out anyway.
I live life on the edge.  ;)

> > Using startx with that line gave me "Ambiguous output redirect."

It's been suggested that my shell (tcsh) doesn't handle redirects very
well and I should try it without the 2 and the 1.
I'll see how this all works when I get back home again.
Thanks again.  You guys are the best!  

> Dominik ^_^  ^_^

heh
=^_^=
Meow!
								-Tenebrae.

---

From: Tenebrae <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:01:31 -0800 (PST)

> carry most of the load lately.

Well, just about every man page or script entry or web site I've visited
for help these days has had your name on in, Dan.
Don't sell yourself short.
Without all the documentation and comments, all the great features might
as well not exist.

> FvwmButtons won't do that.

So the FixedPosition style won't work with FvwmButtons then?

> Use xmodmap to assign the keysym "Help" to a key you don't currently

No point in doing the latter, since F1 appears identical to the Help
entry.  I commented the Help one out.
Thanks!

Can't wait to get home and test...
								-Tenebrae.

---

From: Perry Hutchison <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:15:39 -0800 (PST)

...
...
> well and I should try it without the 2 and the 1.

In csh or tcsh, the equivalent -- feeding both stdout and stderr
into the pipe -- would be

    % startx |& tee $HOME/.X.err

---

From: Erik Steffl <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:56:59 -0800

> it for now, it will go away with the next release.

  you can remove it, it's in fvwm default configuration file, use strace
and search for open to find out where the file is, on my system (debian
unstable) it's:

/usr/share/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults:Key Help R A Popup MenuFvwmRoot

  (at least I assume once you comment that out it will go away, it can
be also hardcoded in source, I didn't check for that)

	erik

---

From: Tenebrae <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:16:56 -0800 (PST)

> be also hardcoded in source, I didn't check for that)

The error "[FVWM][ParseBinding]: <<ERROR>> No such key: Help" went away
when I commented it out in ConfigFvwmDefaults.  Yay!
Also, the great tips I received helped me get my FvwmButtons to stay put
and finally get an error term going in my X session.  Yay again!  Except
it likes to launch another window whenever I restart FVWM, so I end up
with two of them...

There are a few misc. things that have been added to FVWM 2.4.3 that I
still have yet to identify and modify (my goal is to seek out and destroy
all boring grey except in the lame TaskBar which deserves nothing
less - just to remind me of how lame I am to have kept it around all
these years).
I'm also kicking around the idea of replacing FvwmButtons with
FvwmWharf.  I tried changing FvwmButtons from rows to columns, and it
didn't look quite how I wanted to.  If I understand correctly, the Wharf
would make a reasonable substitute.

As a very visual person, I think it would be handy to have documentation
somewhere with screenshots with circles and arrows identifying the various
modules and components in action with the part of the .fvwm2rc file that
produces it.  Glen Lee Edwards' site and the man pages are a great start,
though.

Now I just have to figure out Eterm themes...
And quit rambling so much.
I need to get out more.
								-Tenebrae.