Subject: FVWM: Windows-alike override-redirect issue

From: Neil Bird <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:19:28 +0000

I'm running a 2.3.20 snapshot, Sparc/Solaris 2.6.

  I've just come across an app. that - well, it's nasty. (for reference,
it's Rational 'Rose' developement tool).

  The previous versions of this weren't pleasant, but at least pretended
to be X apps. This latest version basically comes up as if it were a
Windows app. displaying on my X display - the whole window is
override-redirect meaning I have to use the two related BugOpts just to be
able to do anything else (raise/lower, etc.).

  The window itself draws it's one windows-alike title bar, buttons, the
lot. Even iconising it doesn't. It simply shrinks the window it's got (I
seem to recall it uses the *same* window, just icon-sized!).

  Yeugh.

  Anyway, apart from the obvious "what on Earth can I do about it?" (aside
from try in vain to get Rational to change their ways, which I reckon is a
complete non-starter, ...

  Is this a sign of things to come? Looking at it, a couple of libraries
it comes with are things like libshlwapi.so and libadvapi32.so, which I've
not come across before, but seem to be related to similarly named .DLLs
and maybe even WINE stuff.

  Does this portend more & more apps. developed for Windoze, and then
WINEd to UNIX, using a Windows GUI only?

  What makes it worse for me is that the current prevailance here is for
CDE (the Solaris default), which, of course, manages override-redirect
main windows [by the looks of it] and seems to cope. Some people use KDE,
and they seem to be ... accepting it, so I guess it does too. I've not
tried GNOME/Sawfish yet (will in a mo. - but my processor won't take it as
a day-to-day WM), which Sun may put in the next Solaris.

  So I've not got much argument here for the app. to be 'fixed' - they'll
tell me to use CDE like everyone else :-(

  Any thoughts or 'libshlwapi'-related revelations?

  ----

[later]

 - Oh god! It's created a ~/windows as well, with a registry database. I'm
losing the will to live ...

 - And it gets worse; it wants so many colours that, on my 8-bit-deep
display, it uses it's own colourmap, and sets it to be that initially
(messing the other apps.' colours). But since FVWM can't 'see' it's
window, it seems to not that that the colourmap's different, and I have to
resort to running the pointer over 'xcolor' to change the installed
colourmap.

 - And stranger. CDE creates the apps. windows *without* override-redirect
set!! Is that a known 'feature' of CDE????

 - GNOME/Sawfish suffers the same problem [less the colourmap thing, which
it sorts out when I click on a window]. It's slightly worse, since it
doesn't appear to have the BugOpt-option equivalents. Or it might if I
could be bothered to learn Lisp :-/

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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:00:58 -0500

> it's Rational 'Rose' developement tool).

Oh yeah, now I remember, I wrote a FAQ entry for this.
Check the FAQ.

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:58:43 -0500

Neil Bird <[email-masked]> writes:
> it's Rational 'Rose' development tool).

Searches don't seem to be working on our mail archives.

This came   up in  September,   you can browse   the September archive
(search for   "rose") for all  the  details.  Heres the  part that may
help:

  To: Raymond Toy <[email-masked]>
  cc: [email-masked]
  Subject: Re: FVWM: FVWM 2.2.4 vs Rational Rose (Solaris) 
  In-reply-to: Your message of 28 Aug 2000 10:01:41 -0400.
	       <[email-masked]> 
  Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:20:08 -0400
  From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
  
  Raymond Toy <[email-masked]> writes:
  > 
  > I've been using FVWM for ages and it's always worked for me just
  > fine.  However, I've started using Rational Rose for Solaris.  FVWM
  > seems to get completely confused.
  
  Rational Rose  uses some software from Mainsoft  that  lets MS Windows
  applications be recompiled to run on UNIX.
  
  There seem to be 2 Mainsoft Knowledgebase pages that relate to UNIX
  window managers:
  
  http://www.mainsoft.com/nbase/mainwin/kb/kbmw0027.htm
  http://www.mainsoft.com/nbase/mainwin/kb/kbmw0034.htm
  
  The second page looks like it might help, try
  exporting MWWM=allwm before you run your application.
  
  You might also try MWWM=MWM.  With this it would make sense to tell
  fvwm to respect MWM decor hints.
  
  I think the fvwm-workers list would be interested in any results you
  can tell us about.
  
  --
  Dan Espen

Ray then reported that MWWM=allwm seemed to work best.

I think you are correct in your guess that you may see more of these
applications.  Make sure you let Rational know how you feel about
their application defaults.

---

From: Neil Bird <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:42:05 +0000

> Oh yeah, now I remember, I wrote a FAQ entry for this.

  Grief! Yes, sorry, I hadn't even considered that the FAQ's be kept that
up to date! <slap-hands>.

  I'll follow that up, thanks.

  BTW - for reference, those two mainsoft URLs are already out of date!
They've moved the pages (I'm still looking).

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:00:19 -0500

> They've moved the pages (I'm still looking).

Let me know where you find them, and I'll update the FAQ again.

Thanks,