Subject: Fvwm 2.3.11 comments

From: "Robert H. Ford II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:19:00 -0600

Besides the FvwmAuto and GNOME_SetDesk issues I have mentioned to the list
already, here are a couple of other oddities I have experienced with the
December 13th snapshot.

FvwmBackground is easily confused.  If I change to different desktops quickly
then FvwmBackground starts displaying the wrong image.  If I re-click on the
current desktop, then the correct image gets displayed, but then the next
desktop I change to will not have it's background changed.

When I need to restart of FvwmAuto (which is often), my whole X session dies.  I
am restarting FvwmAuto by running FvwmTalk and entering "FvwmAuto 500 raise
Nop".  If I restart fvwm2 then it starts okay.

Now when I do a restart of fvwm2, "Restart fvwm2", windows that I had started on
other desktops are moved to the first desktop.

When I am using Netscape's Messenger, I have mail filtered to other folders. 
When I am finished with the current folder I click on "Next", a selection box
pops up and asks if I wish to read the messages under a different folder.  Well,
I have to click yes twice for this to happen when before it only took one click.

I am not very articulate, but I hope I have conveyed my problems well enough. 
If not please ask me for a clearer report.

Thank you.

Bob Ford II
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---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:25:52 +0200

On 15 Dec 1999 11:19:00 -0600, Robert H. Ford II wrote:
> 
> FvwmBackground is easily confused.  If I change to different desktops
> quickly then FvwmBackground starts displaying the wrong image.  If I
> re-click on the current desktop, then the correct image gets displayed,
> but then the next desktop I change to will not have it's background
> changed.

In the CVS's version, M_NEW_PAGE once again contains an old desk number.
FvwmBacker requires a new desk number to work.

Bob, can you please explain, why do you need an old desk number in this
packet? I think you should undo this change.

> Now when I do a restart of fvwm2, "Restart fvwm2", windows that I had
> started on other desktops are moved to the first desktop.

Robert, can you find a reliable way to reproduce this?
The following is probably unrelated, but...

Please only specify parameters for Restart if you want to restart another
WM or to specify some unusual option. If you want to restart the same
WM with the same initial arguments, use Restart without parameters.
In your case the problem can occur if you have another fvwm2 in $PATH.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:32:51 +0100

On Wed, Dec 15, 1999 at 11:19:00AM -0600, Robert H. Ford II wrote:
> Besides the FvwmAuto and

Have you ever considered not to use Fvwm Auto? 8-)

> GNOME_SetDesk

Fixed.

> issues I have mentioned to the list

Fixed.

> other desktops are moved to the first desktop.

Hm, my windows don't do this.  Is this a general problem (i.e. with all
your windows) or does it only happen intermittently or only for a certain
kind of windows?  In the latter case, could it be caused by some style or
global option in your config?

> I have to click yes twice for this to happen when before it only took one click.

This is probably fixed with one of my patches from today. Can you verify
this, please?

Bye

Dominik ^_^

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---

From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:11:46 -0500

> FvwmBacker requires a new desk number to work.

	Wrong. M_NEW_PAGE contains neither an old nor a new desk number; it
contains the *current* desk number. Why do you assume it must contain a
new desk number? We switch pages all the time without switching desks
(and vice-versa).

> packet? I think you should undo this change.

	The change was put into gotoDeskAndPage_func because, at the time, the
Pager got confused if M_NEW_PAGE came through with a changed current
desk number. Someone (Dominik or Olivier, I forget) has since fixed the
Pager code to Do The Right Thing if the desk is changed when an
M_NEW_PAGE comes through, but none of us ever got around to changing
this function back.

	Remember that this is not simply a matter of the contents of some
packet: what's being updated here is FVWM's notion of what the current
desk is. The justification for this cheat, which updates Scr.CurrentDesk
prematurely (the new desk hasn't been mapped yet) was to reduce flicker
in some cases by letting the Pager update both desk and page at the same
time. (Actually, at the point where gotoDeskAndPage_func calls
MoveViewport, there is, properly speaking, *no* current desk - both old
and new desks are unmapped.)

	I think we should change this back, but...I think Backer needs to be
cleaned up first (just as the Pager had to be cleaned up so we *could*
change it back). You cannot assume that a page switch implies a desk
switch or vice-versa; it seems to me that Backer should be able to
handle the two as discrete events, or as a unit (i.e., the M_NEW_PAGE
packet carrying a changed desk).

Cheers,
Bob

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:18:32 +0200

> new desk number? We switch pages all the time without switching desks

So, just don't send M_NEW_PAGE when the desk is not yet updated to a new
correct value, why to send a packet, which can't be used?

> M_NEW_PAGE comes through, but none of us ever got around to changing

"The Right Thing" you are speaking about is a hack, not a good solution.
The solution is to listen to M_NEW_PAGE (M_NEW_DESKPAGE) and remove
listening to M_NEW_DESK.

I suggest to reread Olivier's and my suggestion on this:

  http://www.hpc.uh.edu/fvwm/archive/9912/msg00230.html

> and new desks are unmapped.)

How exactly M_NEW_PAGE carrying the old (or current whatever) desk number
helps the pager to reduce flickering? I think it only makes things worse.

> cleaned up first (just as the Pager had to be cleaned up so we *could*

The Backer is clean (the version of 15 Dec, without M_NEW_DESK at all).

> packet carrying a changed desk).

Exactly, this is my reason why we should change meaning of M_NEW_PAGE.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:56:18 +0100

> correct value, why to send a packet, which can't be used?

Because it's the only packet which informs the modules of the
new page. In my eyes it's nonsense to have the desk number in
this package at all when there is a distinct desk package. I'd
replace both packages by a new M_NEW_DESK_OR_PAGE package.

> The solution is to listen to M_NEW_PAGE (M_NEW_DESKPAGE) and remove

No, you can't simply stop listening to M_NEW_DESK because
backer won't catch simple desk changes then. BTW, this is
what my patch fixed. Nothing else.

> helps the pager to reduce flickering? I think it only makes things worse.

Yes, that's what Bob said.

> The Backer is clean (the version of 15 Dec, without M_NEW_DESK at all).

Clean but broken. See above.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

---

From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:42:23 -0500

> Clean but broken. See above.

	Now I'm confused (but, as I said yesterday, I've got a really bad case
of the flu, so I'm pretty befuddled even when I'm not trying to think.
:-( )

	I was just about to change gotoDeskAndPage_func back in the hope that
it would satisfy everyone's needs at the moment, but I'm not sure what
you mean by "broken". Or did you mean before your fix?

	Here's my thinking at the moment. 

	We should think of these packets not as commands to take some action
(switch desk, page, or whatever), but as a reflection of a change in the
status of FVWM (hmmm, page has changed...oh, desk has changed, too), and
take whatever action is appropriate for the module to react to the
changes.

	1) Both Backer and Pager (and anyone else who listens to these 2
packets) should be able to handle a change in desk and page reflected in
a single packet.

	2) They must listen for *both* packets, in order to catch the cases of
a simple desk or page switch.

	3) If M_NEW_DESK comes through and the desk hasn't actually changed
(because they already caught the desk change with the page change), then
they should do nothing.

	If these conditions are currently met (are they?), then it seems
reasonable to change gotoDeskAndPage back, and let's see what the visual
performance looks like. If it seems satisfactory, then we can look into
your idea of replacing both packets with an M_NEW_DESK_OR_PAGE packet.

Cheers,
Bob

---

From: "Robert H. Ford II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:20:36 -0600

> Have you ever considered not to use Fvwm Auto? 8-)

Yes I seriously have, but I truly like to point to a window to have it pop to
the top.  I stack a lot of windows and FvwmAuto really comes in handy.

> global option in your config?

This happens to any window that I do not specify a "StartsOnDesk" Style.  I use
FvwmSaveDesk, in my .fvwm2desk file, windows start on the desktops they where on
when the FvwmSaveDesk was executed.  I don't have a StartsOnDesk Style for every
window I run.

This problem started with the December 13th snapshot.

> This is probably fixed with one of my patches from today. Can you verify

I just got in to work, so I have not had a chance to download the latest
snapshot.  As soon as I do, I will let you know.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:35:18 +0100

> you mean by "broken". Or did you mean before your fix?

I mean FvwmBacker was broken before.

> take whatever action is appropriate for the module to react to the

Yes.

> packets) should be able to handle a change in desk and page reflected in

Yes.

> a simple desk or page switch.

Yes.

> (because they already caught the desk change with the page change), then

Yes.

> 	If these conditions are currently met (are they?),

No, they are not. FvwmBacker does it's stuff even if neither the
page nor the desk has changed.

> then it seems

Bye

Dominik ^_^

---

From: "Robert H. Ford II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:40:31 -0600

> > > desktop I change to will not have it's background changed.

This does not appear to be fixed as I am still seeing the problem with the
December 16th snapshot.

> This problem started with the December 13th snapshot.

With the December 16th snapshot this no longer appears to be a problem.

> snapshot.  As soon as I do, I will let you know.

This is now fixed

Bob

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:48:18 +0100

> This does not appear to be fixed as I am still seeing the problem with the

Then you have to wait for the next snapshot.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:18:46 +0200

> > a simple desk or page switch.

Is there a fvwm command which sends M_NEW_DESK, but not M_NEW_PAGE?
All my arguments are based on the fact that there is no such command,
so M_NEW_DESK is just redudant if the module listens to M_NEW_PAGE.
This is why I think the answer here is "No". Correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:56:00 +0100

> This is why I think the answer here is "No". Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes: GotoDesk

Bye

Dominik ^_^