Subject: alt-tab bindings?

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:16:49 +0100

At the moment menus use these tab-related key bindings:

  tab                 down 1 item
  alt-tab             up 1 section
  shift-tab           up 1 item
  shift-alt-tab       up 1 item
  ctrl-shift-tab      up 1 item
  ctrl-shift-alt-tab  up 1 item
  crtl-tab            down 5 items
  ctrl-alt-tab        down 5 items

Am I the only one who thinks these bindings are confusing at best?
I suggest to change these so that you don't have to press three
keys to use the 'alt-tab' feature:

basic navigation:

 !tab                 up 1 item (easier than alt-shift-tab)
 !alt-tab             down 1 item (like in &%!&$95)
 !shift-tab           up1 section
 !shift-alt-tab       down 1 section
  crtl-tab            down 5 items
 !ctrl-shift-tab      up 5 items
  ctrl-shift-alt-tab  don't care
  ctrl-alt-tab        don't care

This should allow consistent one-hand navigation.  Since I never
use the windowlist myself I wanted to get some feedback before I
change anything.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

-- 
Dominik Vogt, Agilent Technologies, Dept. BVS
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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:48:56 -0500

> use the windowlist myself I wanted to get some feedback before I

I'm at home stuck using Exceed right now and I just discovered
that so far I'm unable to get Exceed to give the "alt" to fvwm,
so I can't test anything.

"tab" going up is counter intuitive.  I still like down 1 item.
"alt-tab" going down sounds good (partly because its like &%!&$95,
      partly because I don't know what a section is).
"shift-alt-tab" I think should remain up 1 item (because its intuitive,
      and it mimicks &%!&$95.)
"shift-tab" same as "shift-alt-tab".

I don't use any of the other "tab" variations so I don't care either.

The WindowList isn't my favorite way to switch windows, but I confess
to resorting to it once and a while.

What we really need in the windowlist is an option that would allow
the alt key being released to select the current item.

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:03:46 +0100

> "tab" going up is counter intuitive.  I still like down 1 item.

I thought that tab = up is easier to get than alt-shift-tab. The
general rule is that pressing/releasing alt reverses the direction.
Although I find this more intuitive than a 3-key combination, it
would definitely be confusing in normal menus (but then there is
no reason to hit tab in a menu).

>       partly because I don't know what a section is).

A section is made up of the menu entries between two separators. In
case of winlist I think each desk has it's own section (I didn't try
it).

> the alt key being released to select the current item.

Yuck! :-)

Bye

Dominik ^_^

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:24:39 -0500

> no reason to hit tab in a menu).

It may be easier on the fingers but I only made tab work in menus
because I was trying to emulate something.

I think you hit on a key point.  The "tab" stuff is  not for menus.  I
would guess that shift-tab  is never used in #$%^  or fvwm, its easier
to  pound on tab  a  few times.  I  only  added  shift-tab to  emulate
something.

> case of winlist I think each desk has it's own section (I didn't try

You're right about sections, I just managed to try it out, but use the
WindowList a few times,  just to see what it  does.  Don't worry,  you
won't get addicted.

> > the alt key being released to select the current item.

I agree for menus, but I'm unable to think of an easier way to switch
windows with 1 hand and a windowlist.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 02:36:40 +0200

> At the moment menus use these tab-related key bindings:

Did you mean "down 1 section" here?

>   shift-alt-tab       up 1 item

Did you mean "up 1 section" here?
Unfortunately, my shift combinations are just ignored (they worked some
time ago and I have no time to track this), so I can't test this one.

> Am I the only one who thinks these bindings are confusing at best?

I think that only ctrl bindings are confusing and never used anyway.

>  !tab                 up 1 item (easier than alt-shift-tab)

But tab is "down 1 item" in all toolkits. shift-tab is "up 1 item".

> use the windowlist myself I wanted to get some feedback before I

Sorry, I think the current situation is much better than this.

WindowList and normal menus should use the same keys (an option to switch
alt mapping is a bad idea, IMHO). Since alt bindings (for sections) are
added only recently and ctrl bindings are not used anyway, I think, you
can just bind ctrl for sections and use alt to emulate windows or anything
else (in case someone cares about windows).

So here is a possible compromise:

  tab             down 1 item
  shift-tab       up   1 item
  ctrl-tab        down 1 section
  shift-ctrl-tab  up   1 section
  alt*-tab        don't care, may be like Dan or you suggested

Regards,
Mikhael.