Subject: Q - fvwm-2.3.8

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:13:16 -0700 (PDT)

OK, I decided to start a bit of user-debug on fvwm-2.3.x - without any
modifications to my .fvwm2rc file (just to see what sort of gotchas there
will be).  I got the following errors (I'll number them to ease discussion).

1. [FVWM][Read]: <<ERROR>> file '/usr/local/etc/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults' not found in /usr19/people/nadim or /usr/local/etc/fvwm
2. [FVWM][pixmapPath_function]: <<ERROR>> PixmapPath is deprecated since 2.3.0; use ImagePath instead.
3. [FVWM][iconPath_function]: <<ERROR>> IconPath is deprecated since 2.3.0; use ImagePath instead.

NOTE: I haven't installed fvwm-2.3.8 (I usually don't), I create a directory
      in the modules sub-dir and link all the executable there (that becomes
      my "ModulePath").
ie.
  ModulePath      /usr13/new/fvwm-2.3.8/modules/ALLmodules

Questions/Comments:
error-1: I don't know what this error is about (no mention in the fvwm2.1
         man file).  I see ChangeLog notes; come to think of it I remember it
         had something to do with FvwmForm and having the "." proceed or
         follow the entries or something (good'ole archive reading is
         paying off :-)  But where can I read about it - in other words, what
         do I have to do to please it ?
error-2: OK, I'll fix my .fvwm2rc file.
error-3: OK, I'll fix my .fvwm2rc file.

My $0.02's worth /begin

 When 2.4.0 is ready for release, it might be a good idea to add a file
 in the distribution indicating the new features/deprecated-ones/etc
 between stable releases (2.2.2 vs 2.4.0).  I like the "NEWS" file, but
 there needs to be another ("RELEASE" ?) in the same spirit as the TODO
 file (the NEWS file is a bit too much info for someone that doesn't want
 to see all the gory details -- "just tell me what I need to change to get
 my current setup to run").  Just a suggestion...

My $0.02's worth /end

Compiled on: SunOS cosmo 5.5.1 Generic_103640-17 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
Running via: Exceed-6.1.0.0

I've also noticed a couple of really strange quirks with the new fvwm
(concerning the Pager (extra white border around the internal windows - wrong
sticky color) and WinList (when I iconify something the color of the button
and the text changes for some reason -- it shouldn't) - more in a separate
email).

 - Nadim (please cc replies)
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---

From: Michael Han <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:45:19 -0700

Previously...
>         do I have to do to please it ?

make install. The requested file will be put where it's expected when
you make install.
-- 
[email-masked]                         http://www.best.com/~mikehan/
coffee achiever                              San Francisco, California
Why do we still live here in this repulsive town? All our friends are in New
York." Stephen Merritt
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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:38:31 -0400

Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]> writes:
> 1. [FVWM][Read]: <<ERROR>> file '/usr/local/etc/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults' not 
> found in /usr19/people/nadim or /usr/local/etc/fvwm

As has been pointed out, "make install" has become more important.
Not using make install will cause other things not to work.
The error message isn't the only symptom.

If you have some process set up that makes this undesirable, do make
install to a work area, (using --prefix) and duplicate what it does.

Its not in the man page, because its not user configurable.
The installation instructions say to do "make install".

> error-3: OK, I'll fix my .fvwm2rc file.

I think we had a discussion about describing the "sed" needed to fix this.

>  my current setup to run").  Just a suggestion...

We  will  be creating  a "docs/ANNOUNCE"  file as we  get  closer to a
non-beta release, but there does seem to be too much NEWS for the next
release.   (Our last   ANNOUNCE  file pointed  to  the  NEWS  file for
details.)

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
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---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:09:18 -0700 (PDT)

On Tuesday - September.21.1999 [21:38:31 -0400],
 > Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]> writes:
 [snip snip]
 > >
 > > 1. [FVWM][Read]: <<ERROR>> file '/usr/local/etc/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults'
 > > not found in /usr19/people/nadim or /usr/local/etc/fvwm
 > >
 [snip snip]
 > >
 > > NOTE: I haven't installed fvwm-2.3.8 (I usually don't), I create a
 > >       directory in the modules sub-dir and link all the executable
 > >       there (that becomes my "ModulePath").
 > > ie.

Dan et al, I can't argue that "make install" is important, but in alot of
circumstances (and for a variety of reasons) - there will be individuals
that will not be able to do a proper "make install".

I, for one, would love to know how I can get-by without a complete install.

Could I create ~/.fvwm and copy all the "FvwmForm*." there and set
"FVWM_USERHOME" to "~/.fvwm" -- would that do the trick ?  

I think adding the reason and intent behind "ConfigFvwmDefaults" is worthy
enough to be added to the man pages (even if its not user configurable).
It might also be a good idea to point-out what "Not using 'make install' will
cause other things not to work" really means (what are those other things).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be combative or anything (far from
it - I think you guys are doing a great job).  I just think the option
(or a detailed explanation) needs to be discussed.

Don't tell me I'll have to decipher "make install -n" :-)

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:40:02 -0400

> Don't tell me I'll have to decipher "make install -n" :-)

Hmm, didn't like my "make install" to a work area suggestion...

If you are just building links, you  will miss the new executables and
links  too.  Watch out for the  link  from FvwmAudio to FvwmEvent, and
FvwmTalk orginating  from the  FvwmForm build  area.  Also   watch for
Fvwmcascade and FvwmTile.

As for  the  config files, during  "config" you  end  up defaulting or
setting the  location of the  config  files.  This could  be somewhere
like  /usr/local/etc.  As of 2.3.9,   these  are the installed  config
files:

  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        167 Sep 20 23:12 ConfigFvwmBacker
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        899 Sep 20 23:13 ConfigFvwmButtons
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       1053 Sep 20 23:10 ConfigFvwmDefaults
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       1636 Sep 20 23:18 ConfigFvwmIconBox
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        985 Sep 20 23:18 ConfigFvwmIconMan
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        253 Sep 20 23:19 ConfigFvwmIdent
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        734 Sep 20 23:20 ConfigFvwmPager
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other         77 Sep 20 23:30 ConfigFvwmScroll
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other      11994 Sep 20 23:10 ConfigFvwmSetup
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        963 Sep 20 23:35 ConfigFvwmTaskBar
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        397 Sep 20 23:43 ConfigFvwmWinList
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       1497 Sep 20 23:16 FormFvwmCapture.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       2052 Sep 20 23:16 FormFvwmForm.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        469 Sep 20 23:16 FormFvwmQuitVerify.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        909 Sep 20 23:17 FormFvwmRlogin.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other      10057 Sep 20 23:17 FormFvwmRootCursor.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       3273 Sep 20 23:16 FormFvwmSetup.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other        856 Sep 20 23:17 FormFvwmTalk.
  -rw-r--r--   1 dje      other       1097 Sep 20 23:17 FormFvwmTalkHelp.

You should be able to find these files scattered thru the build area.

As you might appreciate from this, trying to work without make install
is way too complicated.  I don't think I'd like to add this to the man
page or the installation instructions at all.

Once and a while, if I'm working on something for a while, I'll start
out doing a make install, then replace the installed file with a link,
and do make instead of make install.  But then I do lots of work on
a really slow machine, and I have an excuse.

---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:51:10 -0700 (PDT)

On Wednesday - September.22.1999 [15:40:02 -0400],
 > Hmm, didn't like my "make install" to a work area suggestion...

OK, OK --
     I've run "./configure --prefix /my_disk/fvwm-test" and "make install"

I'm still getting,

 [FVWM][Read]: <<ERROR>> file '/usr/local/etc/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults' not
               found in /usr19/people/nadim or /usr/local/etc/fvwm

Can I now set some environmental var. to point to the altered $prefix
installation (/my_disk/fvwm-test instead of /usr/local) ???

One quick note, you might want to consider installing into
$prefix/etc/fvwm/VERSION/Config*
                 ^^^^^^^
so that someone running fvwm-2.6.x doesn't clobber over fvwm-2.4.x
(in case those files do ever change in the future)

 > a really slow machine, and I have an excuse.

Point well made.  A couple of minor things (if I'm out of line - in other
words, the discussion has been had and that's that - let me know)

Concerning obsoleted modules:
a. Instead of having links from FvwmAudio to FvwmEvent wouldn't it be cleaner
   if fvwm internally reverted to FvwmEvent whenever FvwmAudio is called (this
   support would disappear after the next release of course -- you don't want
   these things to build-up -- you want the users to make the changes ASAP,
   but yet be nice enough to accept their configs for _now_)
b. As for FvwmTile (and FvwmTalk etc.) you don't necessarily have to create
   those scripts as part of the 'make install'.  Those scripts could reside as
   is in the distribution.  In other words, in the 'modules' sub-dir have a
   directory named 'FvwmTile' with FvwmTile (the script) as its only content
   (that way you are NOT dependent on "make install")
c. Cry foul (ie. print out an ERROR) and tell the user that FvwmAudio is
   obsolete and tell them to use FvwmEvent instead (applies to all obsoleted
   modules).
d. You'd mentioned something about a sed script for ImagePath (that script
   could apply here as well to make the necessary changes).  Something along
   the lines of 'convert_2.2_to_2.4' sed or perl script would do.

Concerning point-A above, I'd guess that fvwm does not get involved with
modules, it just passes the calls, but the translation would be pretty light
weight I'd think.  Point-B, I think, is clearer compared to what we have now
with no added expense.  Point-C is already happening and Point-D would be
pretty simple as well (whatever changes are needed to circumvent the obsolete
modules would happen automatically for the user - similar to the convert
fvwm1->2 script).

Am I completely whacked-out ?

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:22:35 -0400

> (in case those files do ever change in the future)

During configure, add "--sysconfdir=/my_disk/fvwm-test/etc", or  where
ever you like.

During make install in the fvwm directory, you should have seen
an error if it was unable to copy into /usr/local/etc/fvwm.  Is there
anything there?  If not, did you get a message?

I might have comments on your other points later.

---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:31:33 -0700 (PDT)

On Wednesday - September.22.1999 [17:22:35 -0400],
 > anything there?  If not, did you get a message?

I just went through the whole process again (sans sysconfdif) - NO errors (I
could mail you the output if you so desire).  I think the process went
smoothly - no complaints there :-)

Having just done a './configure --help' its showing sysconfdir as,

  --sysconfdir=DIR        read-only single-machine data in DIR [PREFIX/etc]

which is correct --> $prefix/etc (no need for me to redefine it).

I would have guessed I could 'setenv ??FVWM_ROOTINSTALL?? /my_disk/fvwm-test'
and that'd be it (pretty reasonable thing to do, no ?)  It would default
to /usr/local.

Alas, here were my steps:

   $ setenv LDFLAGS "-R/usr13/new/xpm-3.4k-solaris/lib"
   $ ./configure
       --with-xpm-library=/usr13/new/xpm-3.4k-solaris/lib
       --with-xpm-includes=/usr13/new/xpm-3.4k-solaris/include
       --prefix=/tmp/fvwm
   $ make install

 - Nadim

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:52:21 -0400

>        --with-xpm-includes=/usr13/new/xpm-3.4k-solaris/include

(I assume there  are some  backslashes  in the config  command, or you
just cut it up for email purposes.)

With "--prefix=/tmp/fvwm", the config   files should have been  put in
/tmp/fvwm/etc/fvwm.   If  you  then  execute  /tmp/fvwm/bin/fvwm2,  it
should find the config files in /tmp/fvwm/etc/fvwm.

You can't change  this at run time, the  location of the  config files
gets compiled  into  the binaries.   I don't see  the  value of having
run-time control over this.

If its still not doing what I say it should be  doing, send the output
to me directly.

Well, heres the one relevant line from my make install output:

 ../../version-2_3_9/install-sh -c -m 644 ../../version-2_3_9/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults /opt/public/etc/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults

You might be able to use this output to create a shell that will create
the links you want.  (I recommend getting with the program, and
just doing make install to the real location.)

---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:28:42 -0700 (PDT)

On Wednesday - September.22.1999 [19:52:21 -0400],
 > just cut it up for email purposes.)

Yup - it was a cut-n-paste job (for readability).

 > run-time control over this.

OK - I botched up the cut-n-paste above (the prefix should have been
/my_disk/fvwm-test) -- didn't mean to confuse things further.  I figured out
what my problem was.  I don't have a problem with the way things are done now
that fvwm found its confdir.  Here is my error:

I was deleting config.cache/config.sys/config.status and running configure -
it would generate new Makefiles and I thought that would be sufficient to
recompile everything (timestap of Makefile would be younger than the
executable and so it would recompile it, or so I thought).  That didn't
happen (I guess my understanding have been wrapped over the years concerning
dependencies).  And so I was compiling with the prefix, but no where did I
see the new PREFIX (not even with I 'strings fvwm2') which lead to to believe
that maybe its a runtime indicator.  Alas, got through it (teaches me not
to do 'make distclean').

 > just doing make install to the real location.)

I've been assimilated (make install it is);
my previous points/suggestions still stand though.

Thanks for your patience Dan - I feel rather foolish :-\

 - Nadim