Subject: Re: Enhancement (FvwmPager)

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:29:41 -0700 (XXX)

On Tuesday - May.25.1999 [19:53:46 -0600],
 Dominik Vogt ([email-masked]) wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 10:41:49AM -0700, [email-masked] wrote:
> > I've often found this to be annoying.  I define one Desk in my FvwmPager and
> > I map KP_Add and KP_Subtract to 'Desk 1' and 'Desk -1' respectively.  Now
> > lets assume I am sitting on my one visible desk in the pager and I 'Desk -1'
> > and start some type of application in the non-visible desk.
> 
> That sounds as if you will like the 'current desk' mode of the pager.
> If you start FvwmPager like this:
> 
>   Module FvwmPager * *
> 
> You will always see the current desk in the pager. Perhaps this eases
> your problem a bit.
> 
> Bye
> 
> Dominik ^_^

That doesn't really do it; I was pondering if there was a way of knowing that
there are xterms/applications/windows open in other "non-visible" Desks (a
sort of reminder).  Your suggestion is valid if I knew where those
xterms/applications were, but in the problem noted above I usually don't.

BTW: In my suggestions about "<<" and/or ">>" appearing, I had meant they
     ought to appear in the "label" not "title" of FvwmPager.

Should I enter this request into JitterBug ?

 - Nadim (please cc replies)
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---

From: Brad Giaccio <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:43:22 -0400

On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 09:29:41AM -0700, Nadim Saeed wrote:

> That doesn't really do it; I was pondering if there was a way of
> knowing that there are xterms/applications/windows open in other
> "non-visible" Desks (a sort of reminder).  Your suggestion is valid if
> I knew where those xterms/applications were, but in the problem noted
> above I usually don't.
>
> BTW: In my suggestions about "<<" and/or ">>" appearing, I had meant
> they ought to appear in the "label" not "title" of FvwmPager.
>

I guess I'm still a little confused about how the pager doesn't meet your needs now.  I understand you have multiple desks, but the pager has the ability of showing you multiple desks at once
FvwmPager 0 n  #where n is your last desk number

This way you can see what is on all of your desks at once without
worrying about it.  The other thing you may want to consider is
switching to one of the IconManager (FvwmIconMan, FvwmIconBox,
FvwmWinList), they allow you to see a list of all windows and bind
functions to mouse and key presses so a simple click could take you to
the window, no matter what desk it is on.

I'm not trying to argue here I guess I'm just trying to understand
what functionallity exactlly you want and if any of the modules aready
provide it.

Brad
-- 
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---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:18:36 -0700 (XXX)

On Wednesday - May.26.1999 [12:43:22 -0400],
 > what functionallity exactlly you want and if any of the modules aready

Not a problem.  I'll try to explain my request further and I don't think its
currently available in any module.

I do realize that the pager is able to show multiple desks, I just choose to
have one visible by preference (the visibility of the pager is not the issue
here at all).  Let's assume that 90% of the time am I happy with having a
single desk pager, and that 10% of the time (crunch time) I really get busy
and have to have lots of applications/xterms.  The 10% of the time I opt to
"Desk -1" and/or "Desk 1" into desks that are not visible on my current
running desk (yes, I know I can invoke another pager and view more desks or
as Dominik suggested, use the current desk feature), but that's not what I was
getting at.  During that crunch time I sometimes inadvertently press "Desk -1"
or "Desk 1" multiple times without really knowing it and start applications
on those non-visible desks.  Assuming that I have an application that I
specifically WindowListSkip since that's the way I like it :-) that
application sitting in a non-visible desk will not be visible to me in
anyway unless I know exactly which desk I need to goto - and thus my
suggestion.

To recap, it would be nice if the FvwmPager's label had a dynamic indicator
(such as "<<" and/or ">>") to indicate that there are other
windows/application/xterms/etc open in non-visible desks regardless of the
size of the pager and how many desks it contains.  For example you could
have a pager with 4 desks, but you can still "desk -1" and place a window
in a non-visible desk.  It's simply an indicator that shows that there are
windows out-of-sight; a step further would be the ability to click on those
indicators and have your view point change to those desks.

Does that make sense ?

---

From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:35:54 +0100

> indicators and have your view point change to those desks.

I can't see a problem with implementing the indicators in the label if
you're happy with "<<" (i.e. as extra text in the label). Clicking on
the indicator might be difficult as that is already used to change
desks.

heers,
Tim.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:19:32 -0600

On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 11:18:36AM -0700, [email-masked] wrote:
> and have to have lots of applications/xterms.

> The 10% of the time I opt to
> getting at.

Yes, I know my reply wasn't really aimed at your problem, I just thought
the current desk feature might be useful. A similar idea: if you use desk +/- 1
randomly, would the 'limit desk number' or 'wrap aroud' features of the GotoDesk
command help you in any way (perhaps by limiting the range of allowed desks to
-2 to 2)?

> During that crunch time I sometimes inadvertently press "Desk -1"

Hmm, I thinking and thinking but I can't figure out why this idea bothers
me. It's just a vague feeling. How about a modification to the GotoDesk
command that allows to switch to the next/previous desk with a window on it?

Bye

Dominik ^_^

-- 
Dominik Vogt, Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Dept. BVS
Herrenberger Str.130, 71034 Boeblingen, Germany
phone: 07031/14-4596, fax: 07031/14-3883, [email-masked]
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---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:18:58 -0700 (XXX)

On Thursday - May.27.1999 [08:39:54 -0400],
 Dan Espen ([email-masked]) wrote:
 > Tim Phipps <[email-masked]> writes:
 > > Nadim Saeed wrote:
 > If you wanted  to click on something in   the pager, you would need  a
 > button not text.  (Just pointing out the obvious.)
 > 
 > I think  the idea that  the  pager should  give feedback on  off-pager
 > windows seems like a good one.
 > 

Well, having at least the dynamic indicators (without having the ability
to switch to those desks) is a step in the _right_ direction :-)

 > I think the window can be off-desk or off-page.  This implies the need
 > for more than just a directional pointer.
 > 
 > Taking it a  step further, so that  you can click  on it and bring the
 > window  into  view is  a problem.  Since   we allow so  many desks and
 > pages, you might have to click a couple of billion times.
 > 

Not unless you have a billion desks with applications on each one of them
that are out-of-sight (ie. non-visible).  The idea was not to change focus
to that particular page, but to the desk and have the pager reflect the
contents of the desk (thus all pages on that desk would be visible through
the pager - "'current desk' mode of the pager").  Keep in mind, the
suggestion was not to simply increment and/or decrement by one on each
"click" of the indicator.  The idea was to be taken to the next desk (it
could be as close as one desk away or 100 desks away) that contains any
non-visible xterms/applications/windows.  In other words, sure FVWM gives
you the ability to have a couple of billion pages/desks, but you'll only
use a very small subset of those desks and pages; this mechanism really
would only concern itself with desks and should not bother with pages
(mucking about with pages is way too nasty - and doesn't really buy
you much :-)

For the visually inclined, here's an example.

  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
  |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |  | x |  |   |  | x |  | x |  |   |  |   |
  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
  | x |  |   |  |   |  |   |  | x |  |   |  |   |  | x |  |   |  |   |
  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
    A                           B             C      D

Suppose you start out with a pager that shows 1 desk with 2 pages on it
(entry or desk-B above) and then you click 'Desk -1' 4-times (takes you
to desk-A) and you start an xterm in the lower page (note that you can
only see one desk at a time - only desk-A, only desk-B, etc).  Then later
on you click 'Desk 1' 4-times (takes you back to desk-B) and then you click
'Desk 1' 2-times and create one xterm on desk-C.  You proceed and 'Desk 1'
onto desk-D and create an xterm on its lower page.  Now if you get back to
Desk-B, you will not be able to know where all the other xterms are at
(yes, all xterms are 'WindowListSkip'ed - for grins :-).  What I'm
suggesting is to have desk-B's label indicate "<<" and ">>" and by clicking
on "<<" it would change the pager's view to reflect that of Desk-A's
(which page you end-up on is really irrelevant).  Assuming desks are not
circular, Desk-A would have only one indicator ">>", pressing that lands you
on Desk-B.  Pressing Desk-B's ">>" indicator lands you on Desk-C.  Desk-C
would have two indicators, a "<<" which points to Desk-B and a ">>" which
points to Desk-D.

Sorry for the verbosity, but I didn't know how to convey the idea any clearer.

 > I've been toying with the  idea of giving FvwmPager, the "FvwmAnimate,
 > FvwmForm treatment".  (Creating a  cusomization dialog.)  I don't know
 > if that would help,  you still couldn't create a Pager large enough to
 > hold all the desks.  I'm not sure what the page limit is.
 > 
 > So, I   think  Nadim's  question,  is "should  I  file  an enhancement
 > request"?   I think  so, so I'm   sending this to fvwm-bug  instead of
 > fvwm-workers.   (Nadim, if  you  don't know,   that  will  create  the
 > enhancement request.)
 > 

Dan, you might want to add the example above for clarity to that request.

Thoughts ?

 > > Tim.
 > > --
 > 
 > --
 > Dan Espen
 > 444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
 > Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:34:49 -0400

Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]> writes:
>  > > > To recap, it would be nice if the FvwmPager's label had a dynamic indi
>  > 
> 

I'll paste it in.

> Thoughts ?

Patches produce more results than ideas.

(Not that we don't appreciate ideas.)

Note, that I  NEVER use the Pager.   Control-Arrow thru 2x2 pages (not
desks) just seems so much more logical.