Subject: wm-icons: initial release

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:08:18 +0300 (IDT)

Ok, wm-icons-0.0.1 release is out. Don't expect it to be useful at all.
I will include COPYING when I will be sure what to include in it, since
I didn't find anything about 3dpixmaps's license. We will probably drop
it or move to another place if no solution is found.

You can get wm-icons-0.0.1.tar.gz from http://milonka.ml.org/wm-icons/
There are four one-sized sets and a lot of stubs there. :)

Here is the used icon list:

$ ls | sed 's/.xpm$//' | xargs -n 4 printf "%-17s%-17s%-17s%-17s\n"
abc              calculator       cards            cd-player
cd               chess            clock            desktop
display          editor           empty            floppy
folder           folders          game             ghostview
information      keyboard         monitor          mouse
music            netscape         network          shell
sound            terminal         todo             unknown
window           word-processor   xterm            xv

This list (icon names) is much more important to me than any particular
implementation of it (icon contents). I have tried to create it without
looking at what we have, and the implementation is not important for now.
This standartized list will certainly grow.

I would like to get your comments on both the list and its implementations.
For example, do you think having display, monitor, terminal is redundant?
Or, maybe, netscape shoud be replaced by navigator or netscape-navigator or
several netscape3, netscape4, mozilla? And so on.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:16:17 -0500

> several netscape3, netscape4, mozilla? And so on.

I'd  like   to  close the  loop  and  figure   out  some of  the fvwm2
configuration issues.  (I understand this is not only for fvwm2.)

If we have a "music" icon, that tells me we need commands like this:

Style "Workman" Icon music.xpm
Style "xmcd" Icon music.xpm

In this case, I think we are missing  something.  It would be nicer if
we didn't have  to ask every user to  match  the generic icon  name to
specific applications.   I'm not  sure if  we   need a bunch  of  icon
aliases, or  we just want to create  a "FvwmStyle2Icon" file  with all
common applications configured.

If we have icon size choices, perhaps we need commands like this:

MiniIconStyle "*" Size 18x18, Effect Circled
IconStyle "*" Size 64x64, Effect 3D

The proposed "IconStyle" commands have to be able to understand
the directory structure or naming conventions.  I'm not sure if
this is implementable.  Bear in mind that the typical "ImagePath"
will have directories that are not in the "wm-icons" structure.

For example: /usr/openwin/share/include/X11/bitmaps

We need mini-icons for all the window manager operations to decorate
our menus:

Close
Delete
Destroy
Move
Resize
Shade
Raise
Lower
Iconify, etc.

--
Dan Espen
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From: Michael Han <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:26:41 -0800

Previously...
>Style "xmcd" Icon music.xpm

This is true. But I for one have long done this:

Style "Gimp" Icon monalisa.xpm, UseDecor Graphics
Style "Xpaint" UseStyle Gimp

You get the picture...

>common applications configured.

Point taken. I suppose a simple mapping of what family any of a long
list of apps (and the right string to match its windows) fall into
would be "the right thing to do."

>IconStyle "*" Size 64x64, Effect 3D

This looks pretty nice.

>[snip]

Most of these I had submitted in my icon group (still sans copyright
notice :-<) There are others floating about too. I also made xpms from
the xbms fvwm uses for standard cursors. Thought that could be useful.
-- 
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 - The collected wisdom of Bart Simpson
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---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:41:38 +0300 (IDT)

On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Dan Espen wrote:

> > implementation of it (icon contents).
> 
> configuration issues.(I understand this is not only for fvwm2.)
> 

I think having generic icons is good for a new non-suported application
or just for generic cases, like:

Style "*music*" Icon normal/music.xpm, MiniIcon mini/music.xpm
Style "*cd" Icon normal/cd-player.xpm, MiniIcon mini/cd-player.xpm

(I think "normal" (or "norm") symlink is better than discussed "std".)

> IconStyle "*" Size 64x64, Effect 3D

This is an interesting solution, but it makes it difficult to use old
icons, which are not organized in the wm-icons scheme.
Another solution is having symlinks "normal" and "mini" in the system or
even user space (anyone can create such symlinks) and having a directory
where these links are located in ImagePath. See examples below.

> For example: /usr/openwin/share/include/X11/bitmaps

Yes, but the point is you will be able to use both non-structured 
and structured icons:

ImagePath /usr/X11R6/include/X11/bitmaps:/usr/local/wm-icons
Style "*calc" Icon calculator    # old style bitmap
Style "*calc" Icon normal/calculator.xpm, mini/calculator.xpm

Note, no fvwm changes are needed for implementing this solution.

I agree, it would be helpful to specify place(s) for normal and mini
icons and to have something like:

ImagePath /home/john/wm-icons:/usr/local/wm-icons
Style "*" NormIconSubdir "norm"
Style "*" MiniIconSubdir "mini"
Style "*calc" IconName calculator.xpm

And fvwm itself searches for normal icons in:
  /home/john/wm-icons/norm
  /usr/local/wm-icons/norm
and for mini icons in:
  /home/john/wm-icons/mini
  /usr/local/wm-icons/mini

This solution, unlike yours, makes it easy to use old icons which are
not organized in directories, just don't specify MiniIconSubdir and
NormIconSubdir and use ImagePath and Style "" Icon, MiniIcon.

> We need mini-icons for all the window manager operations to decorate

As it is noted in icons.lst of the initial release:
  http://milonka.ml.org/wm-icons/data/wm-icons-0.0.1/icons.lst
these icon names (window-close, window-move etc.) will be included in the
next version. Every icon set will contain them (not only mini-sets),
because there are no functional differences between the sets (you can use
a large window-move.xpm or similar icons in FvwmButtons, for example).

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:49:41 +0300 (IDT)

> would be "the right thing to do."

Maybe:

Style ( \
  "angband"   \
  "*mahjongg" \
  "*tetris"   \
) Icon ...

or/and:

DefineStyle ( \
  "angband"   \
  "*mahjongg" \
  "*tetris"   \
) "[games]"

Style "[games]" ...

> the xbms fvwm uses for standard cursors. Thought that couldbe useful.

I see only four that represent window operations. All are black & white.
I think, I will use the colored ones, which are in fvwm icons/ directory.

Are all icons that go with fvwm free?

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:13:05 +0200

> Are all icons that go with fvwm free?

Yes. All icons that are not have to vanish from the distribution.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

--
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From: Andreas Ehliar <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:48:48 +0200

> Yes. All icons that are not have to vanish from the distribution.
Hmm... some of these icons are very similar to those found in the MagicWB
icon collection for the Amiga. Since MagicWB is shareware I fear that some
icons in 3dpixmaps is not free.

Info about magic workbench: http://www.sasg.com/mwb/index.html

regards
Andreas Ehliar

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:59:02 +0300 (IDT)

> Info about magic workbench: http://www.sasg.com/mwb/index.html

I have found comp.os.linux.announce message from the author of 3dpixmaps.

.--
| From: "Joerg Mertin" <[email-masked]>
| Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 20:35:27 GMT
|
| Just wanted to make public my new Package of 3d_pixmaps for fvwm.
| In fact, I once ran over some great looking Icons in 3d Look at
| university. As they where so great, I took them, and converted my old
| pixmaps collection to the same look. I'm now releasing them.
`--

LSM entry on http://www.boutell.com/lsm/lsmbyid.cgi/000284 also says
3dpixmaps is free.

Anyway, wm-icons is already GPL'd (upcoming version) since it uses many
GPL'd icons.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 05 Apr 1999 13:29:36 -0400

%% Dan Espen <[email-masked]> writes:

  de> In this case, I think we are missing  something.  It would be nicer if
  de> we didn't have  to ask every user to  match  the generic icon  name to
  de> specific applications.   I'm not  sure if  we   need a bunch  of  icon
  de> aliases, or  we just want to create  a "FvwmStyle2Icon" file  with all
  de> common applications configured.

  de> If we have icon size choices, perhaps we need commands like this:

  de> MiniIconStyle "*" Size 18x18, Effect Circled
  de> IconStyle "*" Size 64x64, Effect 3D

I would strongly object to any changes to the FVWM configuration syntax
that assumed a particular icon directory structure or even
categorization.

If we want to have some recommended way of doing this, IMO best provided
with the wm-icons dist. itself, that's fine: say some FvwmCpp/FvwmM4
macros or something, or even the suggested "Style2Icon" file that can be
read by FVWM--there can be various files with different sizes and
effects to handle that case, or even a script that takes a template,
size, and effect and generates the proper style file for use with
PipeRead or whatever, to avoid an exponential explosion of files.

Am I badly misunderstanding the proposal and flaming out for no reason?
Wouldn't be the first time :).

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 05 Apr 1999 13:43:27 -0400

%% Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]> writes:

  mg> $ ls | sed 's/.xpm$//' | xargs -n 4 printf "%-17s%-17s%-17s%-17s\n"
  mg> abc              calculator       cards            cd-player
  mg> cd               chess            clock            desktop
  mg> display          editor           empty            floppy
  mg> folder           folders          game             ghostview
  mg> information      keyboard         monitor          mouse
  mg> music            netscape         network          shell
  mg> sound            terminal         todo             unknown
  mg> window           word-processor   xterm            xv

Can we get some kind of short mini-description of these?  Most are
obvious but what is "abc" supposed to represent?

Is the idea that each of these categories will contain a single icon for
each size/effect/etc. directory?

What's the difference between "cd-player" and "music"?

Is it wise to have "netscape" and "ghostview" categories, or should
these be something generic like "www-browser" and "ps-preview" or
s'thing?

  mg> I would like to get your comments on both the list and its
  mg> implementations.  For example, do you think having display,
  mg> monitor, terminal is redundant?

Well, it depends on how you want to use them :).  That's why I think a
short description is in order.

For example, Dan has noted we need FVWM style commands to bind these
properly; what kinds of style commands are you envisioning for each of
these categories?

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:00:18 -0400

> Wouldn't be the first time :).

Well, I don't feel flamed yet, you are going to have to use stronger
language, or get personal.

All kidding aside, I  was  trying to make    the point that   whatever
directory  and  file naming  conventions are   chosen,  they should be
parseable  enough that the  user can just say,  "bigger icons", or "3D
icons" and get the desired result.

Since   this mostly  affects  the  "style   appname iconname xxx"  and
"imagepath" commands, I  don't think an actual   new command would  be
needed, perhaps some pre-written config files, or some functions.

I think your point is, why bloat fvwm2 for this wm-icons package which
should not be a required part of fvwm2?  I'd like to go back thru what
I just did  for  new users configurations and  add  mini-icons  to the
menus.  I'm reluctant to do that until these icon issues are settled.

> -- 
>  Paul D. Smith <[email-masked]>         Network Management Developmen

---

From: Steve Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:36:05 -0400 (EDT)

> > that assumed a particular icon directory structure or even

Me too.

As I understand the wm-images directory-structure proposal, one would
have: 

	.../icons/<theme>/<size>/foo.xpm

for whatever combination of themes and sizes the workstation-owner
desires.  There will also be symlinks

	.../icons/<theme>/large --> <large-size>
	.../icons/<theme>/mini --> <mini-size>

[Actually the current proposal uses "std" or "norm", but "large" is a
better opposite to "mini", no?]

Then it is a simple matter of arranging your image path to include
".../icons/<theme>", and use 

	style appname iconname large/app.xpm miniicon mini/app.xpm

in the fvwmrc file.

> needed, perhaps some pre-written config files, or some functions.

To change sizes, all you need is to re-do the symlinks.

To change "effect" or "theme", you need to re-do the ImagePath.

Both of these can be done NOW with NO changes to fvwm code.

--
Steve Robbins                              <[email-masked]>

Don't play cards with the Devil.  He'll deal you an awful hand.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:34:58 +0300 (IDT)

> obvious but what is "abc" supposed to represent?

I would like to get such description too! :) This was some not-so-long-
thought list just to start the disscusion.
"abc" must probably be "alphabet" or even "font", I am not sure.

> each size/effect/etc. directory?

I think, you must revert containment parties in your question.
In my terms, there are icon sets, each of them contains all (real or
linked) icons from the above list. Such icon set has characteristics:
common size, common style (theme). So, I prefer to name it by size-style,
like 32x32-kde (included in the upcoming version of wm-icons).

wm-icons-0.0.1 is built according to the described scheme and I am going
to continue with it.

> What's the difference between "cd-player" and "music"?

Maybe music is a more general category than more specific
  * cd-player (as well as midi-player and amp-player)
  * sound-editor
  * cd-writer

> these be something generic like "www-browser" and "ps-preview" or

I think, we need both generic and common used applications. We really need
to discuss this. Maybe everybody would send their own list of categories
as they see this and we perform a merge.

> short description is in order.

How _we_ want to use them, right? :)

> properly; what kinds of style commands are you envisioning for each of

I will include parts of .fvwm2rc using wm-icons.
The categories are in no way final, and I am not the authority to
decide on them. But this list is like API, it must be finalized as soon as
possible to enable creating new themes according to it. I don't expect
it will be finalized until wm-icons-1.0.0 and without your help.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:00:31 +0300 (IDT)

On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Steve Robbins wrote:

> desires.

I still think <size>-<theme> is a better construction, you can see all
installed icon sets (sorted by size) in one level listing.
Why can not one have mini icons from kde and normal icons from 3dpixmaps.

> There will also be symlinks
> 

No. :) "mini" refers to MiniIcon directive and "norm" refers to "Icon".
I think "mini" and "norm" are ok. It is configurable and a user can call
them "small" and "large" if he wants.

It is really not very important, but I think it is fair to call
traditional icons on the desktop as normal, not large. Anyone else?

> 	style appname iconname large/app.xpm miniicon mini/app.xpm

It is "icon", not "iconname". "iconname" is something I have suggested
to simplify things in fvwmrc:

      NormIconSubdir norm
      MiniIconSubdir mini
      
      style appname1 iconname app1.xpm
      style appname2 iconname app2.xpm
      style appname3 iconname app3.xpm

Compare this with:

      style appname1 icon norm/app1.xpm miniicon mini/app1.xpm
      style appname2 icon norm/app2.xpm miniicon mini/app2.xpm
      style appname3 icon norm/app3.xpm miniicon mini/app3.xpm

There is only one single place of linked directories and one app.xpm for
an application.

> Both of these can be done NOW with NO changes to fvwm code.

If it will stay <size>-<style> as it is now, you can change both
size and style without touching fvwmrc at all.

Regards,
Migo.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:34:24 -0400

> To change sizes, all you need is to re-do the symlinks.

Let say I have 40 users.  Only I want large icons for myself.  Someone
else is into 3D.  Re-do the symlinks where?

---

From: Steve Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:38:37 -0400 (EDT)

> installed icon sets (sorted by size) in one level listing.

1. This won't sort properly by size: suppose you have 8x8-foo and
   14x14-foo directories.

2. Having a sorted directory listing is not a high priority for me.

3. You can always get a sorted listing -- no matter what the
   directory layout -- with appropriate shell/awk/sed/sort tricks.

> Why can not one have mini icons from kde and normal icons from 3dpixmaps.

You can; I never said you couldn't!  I can think of two ways to do this:

1. Put just the top-level icon directory ($ICONS) on the ImagePath, with
   symlinks:

	$ICONS/mini --> kde/14x14
	$ICONS/std  --> 3dpixmaps/48x48

2. Put both $ICONS/kde and $ICONS/3dpixmaps on the Imagepath, and make
   symlinks: 

	$ICONS/kde/mini      --> 14x14
	$ICONS/3dpixmaps/std --> 48x48

with neither kde/std nor 3dpixmaps/mini links.

The bigger advantage to <theme>/size is that you can mix multiple themes:

fvwmrc:
	ImagePath $ICONS/theme1:$ICONS/theme2...

$ICONS:
	theme1/std  --> 48x48
	theme1/mini --> 14x14
	theme2/std  --> 48x48
	theme2/mini --> 14x14
	theme3/std  --> 60x60
	...

In fact, this seems necessary: I looked at a couple of icon packages from
themes.org, and discovered that they contain only a half-dozen icons in
each package.  There's no way that a single theme pack will have
everything one needs.

> There is only one single place of linked directories and one app.xpm for

Yeah, the brevity of the first approach is appealing.  But this requires: 

1.  changes to fvwm code
2.  that the mini- and normal-sized icons have thet same base name

Putting on my "fvwm developer"'s hat for a moment, I'd say, "No code
changes.  No way.".  FVWM should be lean & mean, and it already has too
much special-case code that rarely gets used.  Why should we add more to
support a nonexistant wm-icon distribution style that may never be widely
adopted?  Particularly if the current code supports the proposed wm-icon
layout as-is, albeit with a slightly more verbose configuration style.

Putting on my "fvwm-icon developer"'s hat now, let me address both points
in turn.  First, remember that FVWM is not the only game in town.  We need
to get several WM developer groups on board if this is to become at all
widespread.  It is not useful to me if it is confined to fvwm, for then we
might as well distribute the icons with FVWM code.  The goal is to get
non-FVWM code developers to maintain icon sets that FVWM finds useful.  We
cannot approach each WM team and say, "here's how you need to change your
code to support us."  They will legitimately ask "why should WE change to
support YOU?"

As for the second point; in a perfect world, this may not be a problem. 
But this ain't a perfect world: people may be getting the mini icon from a
different source than their standard sized one, so the names may not
match.  Or worse: maybe they use the same mini icon for three or four
(related) apps each of which has their own standard-sized icon.

> size and style without touching fvwmrc at all.

Touch'e.  

In fact, this is true no matter HOW you do the directory layout.  Even in
a $ICONS/<theme>/<size> style, you can use

	ImagePath $ICONS

with symlinks

	$ICONS/std  --> <theme>/<size>
	$ICONS/mini --> <theme>/<size>

Standing on the beach with a gun in my hand
staring at the sea, staring at the sand ...

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 06 Apr 1999 11:01:08 -0400

>> needed, perhaps some pre-written config files, or some functions.

  sr> To change sizes, all you need is to re-do the symlinks.

This is a non-starter.  It works fine for Joe FVWMUser's home Linux box,
but fails miserably on my work environment where 100+ developers
NFS-mount a huge directory structure containing free code like fvwm.

They won't be re-doing symlinks in the dist of wm-icons, that's for darn
sure :)

All changes _must_ be do-able from the config file, without even
write-access to the wm-icons archives.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:39:42 +0300 (IDT)

> else is into 3D. Re-do the symlinks where?

In the system space (/usr/local/icons) for global configuration
or in the user space (~/icons or ~/wm-icons) for per-user configuration.

Having
  ImagePath $HOME/icons:/usr/local/icons
solves the problem.

~/icons (if any) can contain only two files: symlinks 'mini' and 'norm' to
actual icon-set directories. Any additional directory in ~/icons like
77x33-myown/ or myown/77x33/, whichever scheme we choose, will add to or
overwrite the system-wide icon-sets.

This is also the answer to:

> They won't be re-doing symlinks in the dist of wm-icons, that's for darn

Upcoming wm-icons has a script for (re)doing symlinks in the installed
place or at any other given place such as a user home dir.

> write-access to the wm-icons archives.

You can do it from the config file. Just don't bother with symlinks at
all and use this:

ImagePath $HOME/icons:/usr/local/icons
Style "app1"     Icon my-favorite-norm-icon-set/app1.xpm
Style "app1" MiniIcon my-favorite-mini-icon-set/app1.xpm

Symlinks are optional.
Having symlinks as described above enables easy switch from one icon set
to another for any user without touching fvwmrc at all, why is it bad?

Regards,
Migo.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:55:00 +0300 (IDT)

> 1. This won't sort properly by size: suppose you have 8x8-foo and

Actually, it will (the name is 08x08-foo). Until someone decides to use
huge icons 100x100.

> 2. Having a sorted directory listing is not a high priority for me.

To me to. I think Dominik wanted this. :) And I want too.

>    directory layout -- with appropriate shell/awk/sed/sort tricks.

Yes, but the main reason for <size>-<theme> scheme is not sorting.
I just think there are no better schemes.

> with neither kde/std nor 3dpixmaps/mini links.

I don't like the second way. It is too complex compared to how it is now.

> The bigger advantage to <theme>/size is that you can mix multiple themes:

Mixing multiple themes?
Is not the purposes of a theme to be of one style (not several)?
I prefer to create a new theme composed from several, if you already mix.

>         ImagePath $ICONS/theme1:$ICONS/theme2...

This would be an advantage if it was a reality. The reality is there are no
icon sets with any arbitrary style AND any size. You must suppose, there is
one size in every given theme (sometimes two) and even suppose there are
no other themes with a given theme size.

For example, you wrote above: kde/14x14, 3dpixmaps/48x48. But there are no
such icon set and in fact never will be unless someone is going to rewrite
hundreds of icons from kde or 3dpixmaps. You can automatically resize
an existing icon set, but it will lose quality and color optimizations.

> each package.  There's no way that a single theme pack will have

No, please, never speak of partial icon sets and wm-icons. These are things
that simply can't go together. The reason wm-icons is started is to
standardize existing chaos in icon sets. If your icon set is not complete,
there are several ways to try together to complete it. First, try to merge
it with other partial icon sets (like it is done for general icon sets).
Second, link absent icons to todo.xpm or to more appropriate existing icons.
If you start building your new icon sets from the provided template (full
with links) and replace some or all of the links, you will not need to worry
about completeness of your icon set.

You, anyway, can't use any existing icon set (partial or not) directly with
wm-icons, you must at least sit down and rename all icons to our
standartized icon names. Actually, it is much harder than just renaming,
since it is not always one to one.

All wm-icons icon sets are complete (in the sense of a current wm-icons
version) and will always stay such. It is very easy to keep them up to date,
just copy the new links from 01x01-template (which is always up to date, see
the next release) or better replace them by actual icons, if any.

> 2.  that the mini- and normal-sized icons have thet same base name

Not exactly. Their base names must be provided in ImagePath and can be
different. The first icon found in the base directory from the path plus
subdir wins. So you can overwrite/add your own icon sets, just put your
new base directory first in the ImagePath.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:43:06 +0200

> To me to. I think Dominik wanted this. :) And I want too.

Not a high priority, but definitely nice to have. When Linux grows
on the desktop we don't want to teach people how to sort their
directories.

> I prefer to create a new theme composed from several, if you already mix.

I wouldn't assume everybody uses a theme. Personally I'd be happy if I found
a series of icons for my FvwmButtons in one place, but in the end I'll look
through all available icons. A directory for each icon size is acceptable,
but I wouldn't like diving into dozens of theme subdirectories.

> hundreds of icons from kde or 3dpixmaps.

I thought that's where the new mailing list would come in ;-)
But joking apart, this may be the biggest problem. There are
thousands of icons in many collections out there, but it is
very difficult to find one that is complete enough to decorate
your desktop with.

> You can automatically resize

To me, five complete icon sets are much more valuable than 500 incomplete.
If the main purpose is to 'standardize existing chaos' (which I interpret
to say implicitly 'not to provide complete standard icon sets' - I may
be wrong) the idea loses much of its appeal to me. Viewing a thousand icons
isn't too hard with a good icon browser.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:24:37 -0400 (EDT)

> but I wouldn't like diving into dozens of theme subdirectories.

Why not both?

Put all the files grouped by size into a "size" hierarchy:

	share/fvwm/icons/sizes/16x16
	share/fvwm/icons/sizes/32x32
	share/fvwm/icons/sizes/64x64
	share/fvwm/icons/sizes/misc

Then, add the theme directories, with each of their component icons as
symlinks into the size hierarchy:

	share/fvwm/icons/themes/dragnet
	share/fvwm/icons/themes/metal
	share/fvwm/icons/themes/angryfruitsalad
	.
	.
	.

This allows you to have icons appearing in multiple themes, etc.

Also consider:

	share/fvwm/icons/titlebar
	share/fvwm/icons/buttons

etc.

-- 
Larry Gensch					      [email-masked]

I would really appreciate it if the login command had a better sense of humor.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:30:22 +0300 (IDT)

> but I wouldn't like diving into dozens of theme subdirectories.

Are you sure you don't use any theme? Unless you have NoIcon, you must use
some set of icons. I think you can call this theme 'domivogt'. :)

If you only search for icons to use with your FvwmButtons, wm-icons will
not serve you. You need not standartized sets for this. There are lots of
nice icons 48x48 at:
  http://nether.tky.hut.fi/iconstore/
  http://icons.themes.org/archive/

> isn't too hard with a good icon browser.

Maybe my English is not very rich, but I think I was very clear saying
that all icon sets used within wm-icons are (designed to be) complete.
This means you can use such single set on your desktop and be able to
switch to another similar standartized set with a mouse click.
Standartizing existing chaos does not contradict with providing complete
standard icon sets, there are enough existing resources to choose from.

For now we can only acquire icons created by others, since we are
programmers, not artists. But I hope, sometimes artists will create new
complete themed icon sets especially for wm-icons, using its standardized
name list.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:13:59 +0200

> some set of icons. I think you can call this theme 'domivogt'. :)

Yes, I am sure because I didn't find the icons I was lookig for. Six of
the eleved icons I have are mostly black, three of them are a bit
lighter and two are too colourful to fit into the set :(

> standard icon sets, there are enough existing resources to choose from.

What I wanted to say (but didn't) was that I consider a theme complete
only if it has the same icons for a wide range of sizes. This will be
a lot of work.

Bye

Dominik ^_^