Subject: Fvwm Web-page

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:13:45 -0800 (XXX)

I think we need to jazz-up a bit our web page.  I think www.gtk.org, 
www.gnome.org, www.windowmaker.org have done a GREAT job on their web 
pages and are very content driven, very appealing.  Those pages (along 
with others I'd assume) ought to serve as examples for our beloved
FVWM's page.

I'm not suggesting glitz and glitter for the sake of a fancy look, what I'm
talking about is to make it a bit more appealing for newbies who just got
directed our direction.  I think we should (or even *must*) have a section
that SHOWs (yes screenshots and example) what FVWM is capable of.

Here are a couple of sites that do a pretty good job of what I'm describing
relating to screenshots and examples.

  - Example of configuration commands (but for fvwm-1.24r) the author
    does state that he _will_ be updating the page once 2.0 is released
    (I guess someone needs to give him a nudge ;-)
    The pages content and approach are exceptional.
    http://www.cobaltgroup.com/~roland/fvwm/fvwm.html

  - Sample configuration files (for 2.0.45+ and 1.24) _with_ screenshots.
    A bit list'ish, but gets the point across.
    http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/sdboyd/samples/sample_list.html

  - Very Simple configuration examples
    http://web7.mit.edu/ASC/Documentation/Unix/Fvwm/main.html#local

I would assume there are other sites as well, but what needs to be done
is not to list these URLs - what needs to be done is to create our own
section on fvwm.org showing all the features.

Keep up the great work.

 - Nadim (please cc replies)
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---

From: Jay Kuri <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:14:11 -0500 (EST)

> that SHOWs (yes screenshots and example) what FVWM is capable of.

	I agree.  We have a great program here... I think we should show
it off... If you didn't know what you were looking for, or already use
fvwm, our site doesn't really say "Hey, download this, it's cool"  In my 
opinion, we need a more (uggh) 'contemporary' look.  

If it's a matter of 'who has time to do it', there are people who want to
work on this, but no-one is going to want to do anything until we get
some buy in from the core team.

I've seen related threads just die because no-one replied.  Please don't
let this one go that way...  I know there are opinions on this... what are
they?

Jay

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From: Steve Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:07:50 -0500 (EST)

> opinion, we need a more (uggh) 'contemporary' look.  

I agree.

> some buy in from the core team.

If you're waiting for prior approval before starting, you'll be waiting a
long time; there's no entity that gives out approval for projects.  If
you've got a good idea: implement it and show the world!  Put up the
world's best FVWM web site, and then see what happens. 

> let this one go that way...  I know there are opinions on this... what are

I like the idea of making things easier and appealing to newbies.  Jazzing
up the web pages with screenshots is a good idea.  Having nice coherent
config samples is a good idea.  Maybe each screenshot could be linked to
the config that generated it.  (Or is this what "themes" is doing?  I'm
really behind the times with that stuff.)  

Coming up with a good GUI configuration tool is *very* high on my list of
good ideas.  It needn't be comprehensive.  I'd be happy enough if I could
just rearrange my menus without editing the damn config file!

--
Steve Robbins                              <[email-masked]>

There's a little bit of Elvis in everybody.
Except Michael J. Fox -- he's the anti-Elvis.

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:48:52 -0500

> > let this one go that way...  I know there are opinions on this... what are

As Steve so correctly points out, you can't  rely on getting feedback.
If you believe  what you are creating has  merit, keep at it  and keep
telling us  about it.  We  have some logo  submitters on the list that
must feel the same way.

We need lots of work on configuration, themes are one part of it.

When posting things, make  it clear what  you want.  If you want links
to your site,  say so.  If you  want to change parts  of the fvwm  web
pages, try submitting patches.  If you feel  like you've been ignored,
be persistent.

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:10:48 -0500

> with others I'd assume) ought to serve as examples for our beloved

After checking all these pages, I see differences, but  I think I need
more concrete suggestions.

> section on fvwm.org showing all the features.

I'm curious as to why links aren't good enough?  Maybe if they
were more prominent?

---

From: Pat Rogan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:49:14 -0500

I've brought this up before and agree completely.  We need to make the
pages look friendly yet professional.   They also need to be easy to maintain.

~p@

> > with others I'd assume) ought to serve as examples for our beloved

...

---

From: Nadim Saeed <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:41:17 -0800 (XXX)

On Saturday - March.13.1999 [20:10:48 -0500],
 > I'm curious as to why links aren't good enough?  Maybe if they

I don't think its a question of prominence, its more a question of whether
fvwm.org will keep/update/generate its own _blessed_ examples and screenshots
(BTW: when I say fvwm.org I mean the users and the list)

I have seen a few .fvwm2rc sniplets in the mailing list that I wouldn't be
able to find anywhere on the 'net.  I usually end-up downloading those
sniplets to just _see_ what the effect looks like (screenshots would
come in handy), but the point is there is alot more expertise on the
list than there is on a third-party web-sites.

To be more specific on "why links aren't good enough", consider this.
Whenever I (and I'd assume others) download a package I try to _never_
surf the links in search of information especially if I am at the mother-ship
site ;-)  In other words, when I go to fvwm.org and download fvwm-2.4.0 ;-)
I will not follow a link to some third party to see how to use that package
and to get examples (and screenshots) of this new release.  I would expect
that the examples and screenshots relating to this new release would be
explained in the "what's new in 2.4.0 release" section of the
"Screenshots & Examples" portion of the mother-ship's web-page.

Having most everything that is relevant in one _blessed_ (fvwm.org) place
gives it more importance and shows that its been looked over by "experts" in
the field.  That doesn't say that we shouldn't have links, but they are
usually secondary in case one is looking for _even_ more info.