Subject: fvwm icons distribution

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:33:06 +0300 (IDT)

I want to announce fvwm-icons project. The purposes of the project are:
  * separating icons from fvwm distribution
  * creating efficient standardized wm-independent icons distribution

There are already several people, including Steve Robbins, Pat Rogan and
Michael Han, supporting this project. Anyone from fvwm-workers mailing list,
willing to join the project, is welcome.

More information can be found at:
  http://milonka.ml.org/fvwm-icons/

Please contact me if you want to participate in this project. We could
setup a mailing list to discuss all project nuances (there are many) if
there are enough enthusiasts. Or maybe fvwm-workers is a good place for
fvwm-icons discussions? :) I don't really think so.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:53:14 +0000

>   http://milonka.ml.org/fvwm-icons/

Great idea! Just a quick moan though: could you specify the text and
link colours for this page as well as the background, white on pink is
difficult to read.

Cheers,
Tim.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:52:13 +0300 (IDT)

> link colours for this page as well as the background, white on pink is

I will specify. You seem to revert default colors of your browser to get
white foreground. Anyway it is best viewed with lynx. :)

We will start the discussion today. It will be outside fvwm-workers,
because fvwm-workers already has heavy traffic and I am not sure that all
volunteers are its subscribers. Contact me if you want to be included.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:33:49 +0100

> volunteers are its subscribers. Contact me if you want to be included.

I really think the right place to discuss that is the fvwm-workers list.
Personally I would like to read a mail or two from time to time about
this, but I definitely won't subscribe to another mailing list. As long
as we are discussing about the fvwm distribution the workers list is the
right place to do it.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

-- 
Dominik Vogt, Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Dept. BVS
Herrenberger Str.130, 71034 Boeblingen, Germany
phone: 07031/14-4596, fax: 07031/14-3883, [email-masked]
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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:09:32 +0300 (IDT)

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Dominik Vogt wrote:

> > > Great idea!

[skipped]

> as we are discussing aboutthe fvwm distribution the workers list is the
> right place to do it.

If everyone thinks fvwm-workers is the right place to do it, we can start
these threads here. Actually I didn't see any interest here on icon
topics. Also this will force potential artists who want to participate in
this project to subscribe to fvwm-workers. Remember, we try to make it a
wm-independend project.

Alternativelly, I can publish all messages on the web, so you can read
"mail or two" from time to time.
Any ideas are welcome.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Steve Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:38:09 -0500 (EST)

> this project to subscribe to fvwm-workers. Remember, we try to make it a

I agree with Dominik.  The discussion should take place here until we
cause so much traffic that we get booted off ;-)

I think the immediate goal is to produce a package of icons for use with
fvwm.  This will interest fvwm-workers inasmuch as it affects the content
of the FVWM source tree.  Once there is general agreement about icon
packaging, the discussion will drift into topics less specific to fvwm,
and it'll make more sense to be on a separate list.

I'm attracted by what I know of the gtk model.  My idea is to install a
shell script that one can query to find the location of installed icons. 
At a minimum, one ought to be able to get a list of installed icon
directories. 

Of course, the location for icons must be selectable by the installer.
I propose a scenario such as:

	<download wm-icons-x.y.tar.gz>
	tar xzf wm-icons-x.y.tar.gz
	cd wm-icons-x.y
	make install prefix=/my/favourite/place

This would install icons into ${prefix}/share/wm-icons, and the query
script into ${prefix}/bin.  Prefix defaults to /usr/local.  

The icons would probably be classed into subdirectories under
${prefix}/share/wm-icons, maybe by size (14x14, 16x16, 10x40), or maybe by
a more vague notion like mini, std, side.  I suspect that one wouldn't get
very far if we decreed "mini icons are 14x14".  Somone is going to say
"well, my screen is so huge that I want 18x18 mini icons".  One way around
this is to install both into icons/14x14 and icons/18x18, and make a
symlink icons/mini to the appropriate one.

The query script (wm-icons-cfg?  what is the naming convention used by
gtk and gnome?) would be callable as "wm-icons-config --icon-path" which
returns the full path names of all installed icon directories.  A window
manager configure script would be able to use this to find out where the
icons live on the system.  In the specific case of fvwm, we could use this
info to generate a system.fvwmrc with the appropriate ImagePath.  Heck,
you could even arrange to run wm-icons-config at fvwm startup time to set
the ImagePath!

Comments welcome!

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:15:30 -0500 (EST)

On 26 Mar, Steve Robbins wrote:

> a more vague notion like mini, std, side.

I think size is more useful (just an opinion, though).  Personally, I
tend to dump all my icons into a single directory.

Speaking of which, I have a rather large collection of icons that I've
created and collected over the last couple of years.  I imagine that
a lot of other people on this list have done so as well.  Is somebody
going to act as a repository for these, providing some common color
choices, etc. and cleaning up copyright/trademark issues?

-- 
Larry Gensch					      [email-masked]

I would really appreciate it if the login command had a better sense of humor.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:25:17 -0500

> symlink icons/mini to the appropriate one.

Looks like the discussion just moved back to fvwm-workers.

Steve, it looks like you just made a proposal.  Ie. to classify icons
by directory name.  Currently fvwm2 classifies icons by file name.
At least some of the time.  (I am referring to the "side." and
"mini." convention.)

If you have enough sub-directories, there is a performance penalty
to be paid in all the searching unless you start referring to icons
as "14x14/mini.destroy.xpm" in the window manager config file.
I realize you probably wouldn't put both 14x14 and 16x16
in your imagePath.

It might  be helpful to  identify how  many  categories of icons there
could be.  These are a few I  can think of: "Desktop Icons", Textures,
Titlebar  buttons,   mini-icons, color  theme, 2D vs.   flat,
shaped vs. rectangular vs. square, color hungry, and size
variations (small, medium, large?).

The other item thats been proposed is size, Ie. 16x16 and 48x48.
I think the Motif default is 50x50, but rounding off to a multiple
of 8 sounds logical.  Isn't winblows using 16x16 and 32x32? 

--
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Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
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From: Julian Gilbey <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:23:23 +0100 (BST)

A thought: do we wish to use names or rgb values for the colours,
given a choice?  My personal feeling is that names would lead to
greater consistency.

   Julian

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, QMW, Univ. of London. [email-masked]
             Debian GNU/Linux Developer.  [email-masked]
       -*- Finger [email-masked] for my PGP public key. -*-
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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:06:53 +0300 (IDT)

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Julian Gilbey wrote:

> given a choice?My personal feeling is that names would lead to
> greater consistency.

This depends on whether you want to look at your .xpm file as
  * a binary file, which must be open with graphics viewer only,
  * a configuration file to edit,
  * a C-file to #include :-)

I don't think it is very important. You can create a script, which
replaces rgb's by closest matched color name if you find it useful.

Regards,
Mikhael.