Subject: Notification: incoming/157

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:12:59 -0600 (CST)

FVWM Bug Tracking notification

new message incoming/157

Message summary for PR#157
	From: [email-masked]
	Subject: Problem with raising X window
	Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:12:57 -0600 (CST)
	0 replies 	0 followups

====> ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS <====

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From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:16:14 +0000

> From: [email-masked]
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]

I'm a fellow Exceed sufferer so I know what it feels like.

> fvwm (2.0.46), at least when I click on the titlebar of the said window,
> the window used to come on the foreground. With new one, unless I drag
> the window (in order to move it), this window does not come to fore.

The window raising/lowering part of fvwm was changed recently. This was
to fix bugs and it is an improvement. One thing that happens now is that
fvwm won't raise a window that it thinks is already at the top, it used
to just do a raise which could raise the window above it's own menus.

The problem you have is that fvwm thinks it is talking to an XServer
that is the only thing on the screen, it has no way of knowing about NT
apps.  The problem really lies in Exceed but it's a hard one to
express.  I found the best way to run Exceed is to configure it to
single window mode (config/screen definition). You then get a window
that is the XServer root window. You can still have NT apps running at
the same time but when you switch to Exceed it pops the server to the
top.

The real problem lies in Exceed, I can't get it to not change focus when
I move the pointer into and Exceed client window. If it worked like
other NT apps (only change focus on a click) then Exceed could raise the
window at the same time as changing focus.

Cheers,
Tim.
--
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:24:13 +0100

> window at the same time as changing focus.

Can we do anything about it (without breaking the code again,
of course)? People who have to use Exceed to get fvwm2 are unlucky
enough even without us telling them they should get a real OS
if they want to run fvwm2 smoothly.

Bye

Dominik

--
Dominik Vogt, [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

---

From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:45:33 -0500 (EST)

(I'm not sure whether this will be a dup...my original reply
went to the Reply-To address, [email-masked], but it doesn't
seem to be getting through.)

> if they want to run fvwm2 smoothly.

	We'd need to add something like an Avoid/NoAvoid/NonManagedWindows
option to revert to the old Raise handling, if this is the change that's
causing the problem. That could easily be added with a quick 'n dirty
GlobalOpts. Doing this shouldn't break anything else, except that you'd
have to put up with the old Motif-windows-raised-above-transients
quirk, and Pager ballons would sometimes get covered by a raised
Pager. These caveats should be documented if we add such an option.

	The question is, do we contemplate trying to do something for
2.2, making the first 2.2 "Unofficial Patch", or doing something
official soon after 2.2?...or none of the above?

	I have to wonder, though, in light of Tim's comments, if this
is just one of many problems with Exceed.

- Bob

---

From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:54:21 +0000

> official soon after 2.2?...or none of the above?

Definitely post 2.2.  We don't know that this would fix the problem and
it would nee testing.  We could add a note that Exceed in multiple
window mode has problems. The workaround is to either run Exceed in
single window mode or to iconify all NT apps.

Cheers, Tim.

PS
> is just one of many problems with Exceed.

I gave up trying to use multiple window mode.  It's reliable in single
window mode with all other NT apps iconified (i.e. Exceed is the only NT
window open) when other NT apps are open you get excessive refresh
events and NetscapeNT has colormap spasms (I have seen it or Exceed go
into blinding full screen flash mode (reboot is the only way out)). I'm
OK with this set up but then the only NT app I have to use is to fill in
my timesheet every month (why this isn't a web form I don't know,
actually I do, someone has been sucked in by the "Microsoft is the best
tool for everything" myth). Hopefully NT5 or whatever will have
NT->Xserver capability and then I can put Linux on the PC in front of me
(I can dream can't I?).
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:07 +0100

On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 09:54:21AM +0000, Tim Phipps wrote:
> into blinding full screen flash mode (reboot is the only way out)).

Perhaps we could create some patches that modify fvwm to run
better on Exceed (based on the latest release). Of course this
would only be a temporary solution.

Bob, could you make a patch for 2.1.whatever to change this
back that anyone could use for now?

> I'm

Then, why not dream about Linux winning over m$ within a year :)

Bye

Dominik

-- 
Dominik Vogt, Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Dept. BVS
Herrenberger Str.130, 71034 Boeblingen, Germany
phone: 07031/14-4596, fax: 07031/14-3883, [email-masked]
--
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To report problems, send mail to [email-masked].

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:04:15 -0500

> > single window mode or to iconify all NT apps.

I need some education.

I've used Exceed in single and multiple window mode.  In single window
mode, I use fvwm2 as the window manager.  In  multiple window mode, it
appears to me that NT is acting as the window manager.

How do you  get fvwm2 involved  when  using Exceed in multiple  window
mode?

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
--
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To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm-workers" in the
body of a message to [email-masked].
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---

From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:17:52 +0000

> How do you  get fvwm2 involved  when  using Exceed in multiple  window

In the Config/ScreenDefn dialog box. When you click on
MultipleWindowMode a WindowManager dropdown appears and you can select
one of:

*) Native: which uses NT to manage the windows (they look like NT
Windows)
*) X: which removes the NT borders and lets a real window manager
control the X-clients
*) Default to native: which behaves as the first until a window manager
tries to run when it switches to the second.

The "Default to native" setting is very nice because it lets you start
(and stop) fvwm without losing the ability to move/iconify/focus
windows.

Cheers,
Tim.

---

From: Danek Duvall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:43:20 -0800

On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 09:54:21AM +0000, Tim Phipps wrote:

> I'm OK with this set up but then the only NT app I have to use is to fill
> in my timesheet every month (why this isn't a web form I don't know,

Actually, you might want to take a look at VNC:

    http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc

This program is basically `screen' for windowing systems.  On a unix box,
you can start up a vnc X server, detach it from the current display, move
to another box, pull it up again, and start working.  The other box can be
any other computer with vnc, a network connection, and some sort of
graphical display.  Including NT!

You can also package up an NT session in the same way, and display it on an
X display.  I wouldn't want to play Quake across this thing, but for
filling out a timesheet (if that's the only app you want to use), it's more
than sufficient.

So go ahead, put Linux on your desktop, and fear not the evil forces of the
Enemy!  :)

Danek

---

From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:00:07 -0500 (EST)

> back that anyone could use for now?

	Done. It can be grabbed from my Unofficial Patches page at

	http://www.pcnet.com/~proteus/Fvwm/FvwmPatches.html

Tim, you wanna give this a try? 

- Bob

---

From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 15:21:58 +0000

> Tim, you wanna give this a try?

It might help. I don't normally run Exceed in multiple window mode so
I'm not sure I'm reproducing the problem. After the patch I was still
able to get Xwindows stuck under NT windows, even though the
XRaiseWindow was being executed.  I think there are Exceed bugs
happening here and that the old method wouldn't have always worked
anyway.  It's probably best to get the original victim to test this
out.  I have certainly been able to show Exceed not raising Xwindows
above NT windows when given an XRaiseWindow (in this case there is
nothing we can do). Sometimes it works and with this patch it probably
works more often.

Another thing, this patch gives me problems with RaiseLower. I think it
might be something to do with Scr.LastRaised not getting set with
NoAvoidUn...

Cheers,
Tim.