Subject: Bug->Not-a-bug Why?

From: "David M. Ronis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:58:12 -0500 (EST)

I recently posted a bug(?) to the bugtracking system [#115].  I
checked today and it's been classified as a not-a-bug.  That's great,
but how do I configure things to give me the old behavior back.  There
doesn't seem to be any audit/followup information on the bug.

David Ronis

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:38:14 +0100

> doesn't seem to be any audit/followup information on the bug.

I thought I'd answered this. Anyway, the reason for this change was
that you could end up un the item of an menu invoked with 'Popup'
and select something you did not want, so I made a change that
the mouse click is ignored if you release it fast without moving
the mouse. Some people seem to use such a click as a fast way
to invoke a default application from a menu without a title.
To get this again you need to define a default action for the
Popup like this:

  DestroyMenu foo
  AddToMenu foo "xterm" Exec xterm
  ...

  Popup foo Exec xterm

Bye

Dominik

--
Dominik Vogt, [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 12 Jan 1999 09:48:48 -0500

%% Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> writes:

  >> doesn't seem to be any audit/followup information on the bug.

  dv> I thought I'd answered this.

I think David's point is a good one, though: we shouldn't be moving bugs
into "dead-end" queues like "not a bug", "no fix", and "enh. reject"
(even, IMHO, "postponed") without some kind of note or reply stating the
reason, stored in the bug itself.

If we just email it, people will forget and want to go back and look.
Also, people will be searching the bug DB (we hope! :) and they'd like
to see the answer.

  dv> Anyway, the reason for this change was that you could end up un
  dv> the item of an menu invoked with 'Popup' and select something you
  dv> did not want, so I made a change that the mouse click is ignored
  dv> if you release it fast without moving the mouse. Some people seem
  dv> to use such a click as a fast way to invoke a default application
  dv> from a menu without a title.  To get this again you need to define
  dv> a default action for the Popup like this:

  dv>   DestroyMenu foo
  dv>   AddToMenu foo "xterm" Exec xterm
  dv>   ...

  dv>   Popup foo Exec xterm

Also, remember you can create a FAQ entry in Jitterbug from any reply to
a bug!  This is cool.  If you type in a response that you feel is
FAQ-worthy, mark it like that in the reply.  Then, if/when the bug
report comes around again you can just send out the old reply (if I
understand this feature correctly).

This one seems a good candidate.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Smith <[email-masked]>         Network Management Development
 "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.
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From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 12 Jan 1999 10:08:44 -0500

Hmm... Looks like someone's been playing around with the corporate
sendmail configuration.  Ho hum.

This is still really me, and my old address [email-masked] will
continue to work for some amount of time, anyway.

Like that new username I didn't get to pick?  Very obvious, ain't it?
Gotta love the corporate mindset :-/.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:47:49 +0100

> Also, people will be searching the bug DB (we hope! :) and they'd like

You are right, but I have a problem with Jitterbug. At my job I
can't spend the day hacking bug reports and such and at home
my access to Jitterbug is *extremely* slow (often it takes
several minutes to load a single page and in Germany this
costs real money). Writing a reply to a single bug report
costs me about half a dollar so I try to avoid it at home.
That is one of the reasons I'm quite dissatisfied with
Jitterbug. It has so much overhead for each page. It would
be great if there was a possibility to work offline like
with CVS although in the end I'd like to switch to a better
bug tracker.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 12 Jan 1999 12:13:03 -0500

dv> You are right, but I have a problem with Jitterbug. At my job I
  dv> can't spend the day hacking bug reports and such and at home
  dv> my access to Jitterbug is *extremely* slow (often it takes
  dv> several minutes to load a single page and in Germany this
  dv> costs real money).

I don't understand why this is so.  Jitterbug doesn't have any graphics
or other fancy things in its pages, so there's no reason for it to be
any slower than any other www page.  All the CGI stuff is done on the
server so that shouldn't be a cause for problems on your end.

Are you saying _all_ your www access is that slow, or that Jitterbug
pages are especially slow?

  dv> Writing a reply to a single bug report costs me about half a
  dv> dollar so I try to avoid it at home.  That is one of the reasons
  dv> I'm quite dissatisfied with Jitterbug. It has so much overhead for
  dv> each page.

It _doesn't_, though!  I don't understand why you say this.  Jitterbug
is so simple: it uses a few tables and some forms, and that's _it_.
There are no graphics (except the FVWM logo), no Java, no _nothing_.

Use the "View Source" option in your browser and see; I just looked at
the "not a bug" list with 4 bugs, and it was just 203 lines of HTML,
(under 8K) start to end, and nothing else.

I just don't see how you could possibly get any less overhead than this
unless you want to remove all the forms stuff, and then how would you do
any actual handling of bugs?

  dv> It would be great if there was a possibility to work offline like
  dv> with CVS although in the end I'd like to switch to a better bug
  dv> tracker.

Well, Jitterbug is largely email-based, underneath.  You should be able
to send emails to it and have them show up associated with the bug as
replies.

I don't think you can create a FAQ entry like that (but maybe you can)
but you can definitely log notes to bugs.

I understand the problem, but I don't know what to do about it.  I've
never heard of a web-based bug tracking system that lets you work
off-line; I don't even know how that would work: you would download
all the bugs you're interested in and modify them offline, then upload
the changes?

I also think Jitterbug has some missing features, but any web-based
tracking system we replace it with will almost certainly have _more_
overhead, not less.  I can't see how it could be otherwise.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:11:14 +0100

> pages are especially slow?

No, its only Jitterbug. Well, my www access is slow (what you would
expect over an 38k modem), but *this* slow.

> It _doesn't_, though!  I don't understand why you say this.

Well, at work (HP-UX 10.20) is see it flickering and repaining the
pages all the time (and it's similarly slow, but that may be
because of the ancient machine I have).

> Jitterbug

? Then why all the flicker ?

> to send emails to it and have them show up associated with the bug as

The problem is that I don't have the bug 'database' on my disk.
If this could be downloaded (or better: updated) in a single
sweep that would help a lot.
 
> overhead, not less.  I can't see how it could be otherwise.

? (helpless)

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 12 Jan 1999 17:43:56 -0600

>>>>> "DV" == Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> writes:

DV> ? Then why all the flicker ?

Older versions of Netscape (3.0 at least) have a serious time with forms
with large numbers of buttons and textareas.  Netscape 4 and 4.5, in
contrast, seem really smooth.

I will point out that Lynx seems to handle the Jitterbug pages fine.  Not
terribly pretty, but usable.  It does complain about a bit of bad HTML on
occasion, but I haven't tried to track it down.

 - J<

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 12 Jan 1999 19:24:25 -0500

>> It _doesn't_, though!  I don't understand why you say this.

  dv> Well, at work (HP-UX 10.20) is see it flickering and repaining the
  dv> pages all the time (and it's similarly slow, but that may be
  dv> because of the ancient machine I have).

Sounds to me like you need to upgrade your browser.  I don't see any of
this with Netscape 4.x, what are you using?

You might also want to try lynx or Emacs W3 mode, and see if that's
acceptably faster.  Since Jitterbug doesn't use any images you shouldn't
lose much (as long as they handle the tables and forms mostly
correctly).

  dv> The problem is that I don't have the bug 'database' on my disk.
  dv> If this could be downloaded (or better: updated) in a single
  dv> sweep that would help a lot.

For now, perhaps, but bug databases have a habit of getting a lot bigger
than the code they're associated with :)

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:02:16 +0100

> this with Netscape 4.x, what are you using?

4.0.6 at work and 4.0.5 at home (I believe).

> lose much (as long as they handle the tables and forms mostly

I'll play around with lynx a bit.
 
> than the code they're associated with :)

It would be enough to get a tarfile of the open bugs.
Jason, could you provide some automatic method for
this (e.g. a tarfile for each of the directories)?

Bye

Dominik

-- 
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Herrenberger Str.130, 71034 Boeblingen, Germany
phone: 07031/14-4596, fax: 07031/14-3883, [email-masked]
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From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 09:44:40 -0500

>> this with Netscape 4.x, what are you using?

  dv> 4.0.6 at work and 4.0.5 at home (I believe).

Odd.  I use both of these, and 4.5, and never notice any repainting.  I
even use it at home, over a 28.8 modem that never connects at 28.8.

As I said, the HTML is as simple as it can be so I just don't understand
the problem.

---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jan 1999 09:36:45 -0600

>>>>> "DV" == Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> writes:

DV> Jason, could you provide some automatic method for this (e.g. a tarfile
DV> for each of the directories)?

Not easily at this time.

 - J<

---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jan 1999 09:41:08 -0600

>>>>> "JLT" == Jason L Tibbitts <[email-masked]> writes:

JLT> Not easily at this time.

Actually, I can provide one via HTTP rather easily.  The restriction is
that I don't have an FTP server set up on that machine yet.  Since HTTP
seems to be a problem....

 - J<

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:07:53 +0100

> seems to be a problem....

It's not so bad if I can download a few files. This would help too.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jan 1999 11:57:51 -0600

>>>>> "DV" == Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> writes:

DV> It's not so bad if I can download a few files. This would help too.

There's a dump of the jitterbug database at
http://fvwm.math.uh.edu/fvwm-bugs.tar.gz.  It is updated once an hour.

 - J<