Subject: Status update

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:25:05 +0100

Things left to do before 2.2:
-----------------------------

Items marked with a '*' may be skipped if the reporters don't
cooperate.

1) the key/mouse binding problems (not all in Jitterbug)
*  [investigation stalled]

10) crash with xclock (bug #56)
    [investigation stalled]

15) gradient menus lose their colours under obscure circumstances.
*   [investigation pending]

Fixed but not verified:
-----------------------

5) verify the 'growing windows' bugfix (tkbiff may still have
   a problem)
   [pending]

6) verify the num-lock/key binding bugfix (bug #54)
*  [pending]

Stuff done since last update:
-----------------------------

2) the XPM problems

9) FvwmCpp does not know where cpp is (bug #95)
   can you say something about this, Paul (PDS)?

12) this 'serious bug' RedHat found (I'd like to see the patch).

13) the FvwmCommandS problem discussed recently
    [no bug]

14) Backed out and postponed the StaysOnTop related patch

Dominik

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Bye

Dominik

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 08:34:58 +0100

> 1) the key/mouse binding problems (not all in Jitterbug)

After careful observation of the postings and bug reports
from the last months this is my analysis.

a) Something is broken with modifiers.
   People are complaining that the '1' modifier does not
   worki (but 'M' does), 'A' does not work for num-lock etc.

b) It happens only on a certain class of systems (keyboard,
   Xserver). I guess this is caused by the Xserver doing
   this in a different way than expected. I don't have a
   broken system so I need assistance by somebody who has.

c) The problem is not made easier by a bug in SloppyFocus:
   When the pointer is on the root window but a window is
   still 'sloppyfocus'ed the context of a key press is the
   window, not the root window. So all attempt to reproduce
   any of this should be without SloppyFocus first. This bug
   was in 2.0.46 as well.

d) The bug may be related to any XGrabKey/XGrabButton call
   (presumably in add_windows.c).

In my eyes this is the worst problem left. If we can't find
a way to fix it we should have a detailed description how to
work around it. This implies that we need to reproduce it.
As I said I don't have a broken system and made a number of
futile attempt to reproduce it. Tim and Dan, you often have
a keen eye when it comes down to such a level. Could you have
a try? Everybody else is invited too, of course. We need to
establish a discussion about our guesses and conclusions here.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 20:28:01 -0500

>    worki (but 'M' does), 'A' does not work for num-lock etc.

So far all my testing shows all the modifiers  working as they should.
Could you refresh my memory on the specific problem report.

I tested with  the Solaris 2.5.1 X Server  and Fvwm CVS as  of Friday,
and MouseFocus.

>    broken system so I need assistance by somebody who has.

This would indicate a broken X Server or bad xmodmap more
than a fvwm problem.

--
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:22:31 +0100

> Could you refresh my memory on the specific problem report.

First of all, if you could look through the mailing list archives
and summarize what you find I'd be grateful (my connection at home is
so slow that I don't want to browse the archives from here).
Specifically I remember three reports:

A) Someone said that specifying 'A' for modifiers (i.e. any modifier)
   did work for caps-lock but not for num-lock. I can't remember the
   system and if this was already broken in 2.0.46. I tried to
   reproduce this, but if works on my system.

B) Neil Bird reported the '1' modifier did not work with a particular
   mouse binding entry (report attached). A reply suggested to use 'M'
   which worked on a similar system/keyboard.

C) Several people reported they got the escape sequences written
   into their xterm when they bind e.g. 'Key left w c refresh'.
   They said it worked before. One of the people was Tomas Ogren
   if I remember correctly.  We had some discussion about num-lock
   and modifiers in general and I Fixed something in ParseBindEntry().
   Although we had no complaints thereafter I can't believe that this
   has fixed the problem.
   I've been asking people several times if this is fixed, but
   nobody answered.

D) This is probably not related, but pressing certain hotkeys seems
   to disturb the colour gradients for menus (bugs #108 and #112).

> This would indicate a broken X Server or bad xmodmap more

I'd say the same if not all of the reports said that the very
same setup worked in some earlier version (2.1.5/2.0.46/2.0.45).
I've spent a few hours viewing diffs between 2.0.46 and some
2.1.x to find changes in key handling. That revealed nothing
though. Perhaps there were changes in add_window.c to the
XGrabKey calls? Can't remember if I verified this.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:25:41 +0100

> 10) crash with xclock (bug #56)

I asked the reporter (Richard Lister) to verify if this
still happens with the new signal handling, but he told
me he was away until mid January or so. Do you still
think of us, Ric?

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Richard Lister <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:16:13 -0500

On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:25:41 +0100
Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> 
> me he was away until mid January or so. Do you still

Dominik, I didn't report the xclock problem. You're probably thinking
of me in connection with the growing tkbiff. I'm hoping to test that
one out today or tomorrow.

Ric

Richard J Lister, Georgetown Institute for Cognitive and Computational Sciences
Georgetown University Medical Center, Washington, DC 20007, USA
Phone: +1 202-687 2878
Email: [email-masked] 
Web: http://www.giccs.georgetown.edu/~ric/
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:16:29 +0100

> one out today or tomorrow.

Uh oh, sorry! My memory has failed me, it was Philip Hollenback.

Dominik

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:48:57 +0100

>    which worked on a similar system/keyboard.

That was this binding bug in 2.1.7.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:10:08 -0500

> > >    worki (but 'M' does), 'A' does not work for num-lock etc.

After all the recent mail traffic, and my searching of the mail
archives on "modifier", I am convinced that fvwm2 key and button
binding is working.

Are we past this problem or not?

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:13:18 +0100

> Are we past this problem or not?

I don't know. People don't answer to my questions and I could
not find anything myself. Do you have a list of people complaining
about this problem that we said was a num-lock problem? I could
ask them again if it's fixed or not.

Otherwise I would leave this open until all other problems
are resolved somehow and then make 2.2 without further
actions.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:58:21 +0100

> 5) verify the 'growing windows' bugfix (tkbiff may still have

Actually tkbiff responds to a ConfigureNotify with a
ConfigureRequest. This seems to ba an ICCCM violation but
may still be a bug in fvwm too.

> 6) verify the num-lock/key binding bugfix (bug #54)

I'm trying to contact one of the reporters.

Bye

Dominik

---

From: Matthias Clasen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:32:52 +0100

> may still be a bug in fvwm too.

A nice way to prove that this is the case is to resize the tkbiff 
window and watch it snap back to its old size immediately...not ICCCM
at all.

-- 
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Tel. 0761/203-5606
Email: [email-masked]
Mathematisches Institut, Albert-Ludwigs-Universitaet Freiburg
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---

From: Tim Phipps <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:54:26 +0000

> > 1) the key/mouse binding problems (not all in Jitterbug)

Here's my take on the situation (using Exceed xserver running on NT
which may well do strange things with Num-lock)

>    worki (but 'M' does), 'A' does not work for num-lock etc.

I can bind things to Home and hit keypad 7 and it works as long as
num-lock is off.  With num lock on I have to bind to KP_7. 
Interestingly if I bind to KP_7, have num-lock on I can hit shift-kp_7
and xterm prints a 7 and I can bind to unshifted kp_7 and have fvwm grab
it.  Looks like num-lock on this server isn't just holding down the
shift for the keypad keys but actually doing sending different keys. 
It's been this way for ages so it's not a 2.1.7 problem.

>    broken system so I need assistance by somebody who has.

I can't help. I'm stuck with NT (actually all I need is a way of editing
Microsoft Excell spread sheets (NT4.0) and I might just stick Linux on
(I've tried StarOffice, it lost stuff when saving))

Cheers,
Tim.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:23:50 -0500

> It's been this way for ages so it's not a 2.1.7 problem.

The mysteries of X keyboards...

Key KP_7 R N Exec echo "KP 7, no modifier"
Key KP_7 R 3 Exec echo "KP 7, mod3 (numlock)"
Key KP_7 R S Exec echo "KP 7, shift"
Key KP_7 R S3 Exec echo "KP 7, shift + mod3 (numlock)"

I used the above as test data and it all worked.  Then I decided to
make sure my xmodmap file wasn't confusing the issue and I found
this:

! by default F27 F27 KP_7 Home
keycode 75=KP_7 Home

Plainly, the default keysym "F27" offended me so I nuked it.
So then I added these test cases:

Key F27 R N Exec echo "F27, no modifier"
Key F27 R 3 Exec echo "F27, mod3 (numlock)"
Key F27 R S Exec echo "F27, shift"
Key F27 R S3 Exec echo "F27, shift + mod3 (numlock)"

and removed the keycode 75 line. Numlock wouldn't  even light the led,
let alone let me produce the lines with mod3 in them.

Looking farther in my xmodmap, I found:

clear Mod3

After removing that line, all the F27 bindings started working.

So I still don't see any problem.  (Solaris 2.6).

---

From: Michael Han <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:00:51 -0800

Previously...
>It's been this way for ages so it's not a 2.1.7 problem.

I think this is a server-related thing. I know my server Accelerated-X
2.1 does some odd things with numeric keypad. I spent a *long* time
trying to figure it out, when I was much more of a newbie on X, and
decided my server just wanted to handle numeric keypad on its own.
I'll try poking around and seeing if I can figure out anything new,
but I wouldn't be surprised if it's related to Exceed. Especially
(warning: don't know much about this) if Windohs handles the keypad
differently than the X server... Basically, if Windohs doesn't treat
NumLock as a full-fledged modifier, then Exceed would have (I imagine)
a hard time doing otherwise. Of course, I don't know a whole lot about
Windohs-related keyboard input...

Of course, our problems with NumLock are, I think, unrelated to the
problem being reported, which doesn't always have to do with NumLock
anyway. Actually, I don't even have a "problem" with numlock, since I
don't really *want* numlock to be a modifier. I'm happy without it.
It's something I use too infrequently to want behaving otherwise than 

>(I've tried StarOffice, it lost stuff when saving))

Have you looked at recent releases of wine? I've heard rumors that
Office97 is starting to work properly (best with a legacy installation
of Win95 somewhere on the hard disk). My old Word 6.0 is pretty
functional too.
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---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:35:50 -0500

> It's something I use too infrequently to want behaving otherwise than 

But what are our problems with numlock?  I guess I'm not believing
we have any.

---

From: Michael Han <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:11:53 -0800

Previously...
>But what are our problems with numlock?  I guess I'm not believing

Oh. That would be "our" meaning Tim and myself. Not "our" meaning
fvwm-workers... Sorry for the ambiguity... I seem to be doing that a
lot with plural pronouns lately.

My message was mostly to say that I thought that NumLock problems are
most likely *not* fvwm-related, IMHO. The confusion surrounding
NumLock's behavior makes bug reports concerning it highly suspect.
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