Subject: GNOME status

From: DP <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:43:24 -0800 (PST)

If someone has the time could they please make a short
list of stuff in FVWM that's GNOME compliant and stuff
that's not? I was just wondering if most important/noticable
stuff is working; E is way too slow and FVWM themes are cooler,
so i'd like to switch ;-)

Dan, [email-masked]

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:09:12 -0500

> so i'd like to switch ;-)

I've looked at the Gnome pages a couple of times and gotten
nowhere.

Why don't you install fvwm2 and tell us what is missing?

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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 22 Dec 1998 12:59:14 -0600

>>>>> "DE" == Dan Espen <[email-masked]> writes:

DE> I've looked at the Gnome pages a couple of times and gotten nowhere.

The basic premise is that in order to perform certain functions, the set of
wm-hints that apps can pass on to the WM must be extended.  Both KDE and
Gnome work this way, although Gnome does not _require_ any special
functionality at all and so the correct answer is that FVWM is absolutely,
completely, 100% Gnome-compliant.  Lots of people use Gnome and FVWM.

The main Gnome extensions relate to icons and to virtual desktops; Gnome
has its own pager module.  I don't know anything about KDE, but finally a
window manager other than the one KDE ships has a but of support for the
extended hint set.  (That would be BlackBox.  It seems like writing WMs is
the new fad.)

The Gnome folks have published a spec defining their hints; it is unclear
and badly written.  Maciej (scwm guy) has posed some questions to the folks
who wrote the spec but I never saw any response.  I don't think it's really
worth working on (except superficially) until someone clarifies it.

I believe it is important for FVWM to support these things, as it's
necessary to have a portable, stable lightweight solution that people are
familiar with.  Of course, I'm not writing the code, so who am I to talk?
I'm pretty sure that without this support no Linux distro is going to ship
FVWM by default.

 - J<

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:00:46 -0500

> DE> I've looked at the Gnome pages a couple of times and gotten nowhere.
...
> familiar with.  Of course, I'm not writing the code, so who am I to talk?

Well, I can't let this one go by without comment...

Who are you to talk?  Thats a good question.

If   I'm not  mistaken,  you've been  helping  the  fvwm  effort since
September 1995.   Perhaps longer, thats  just  the earliest  record  I
have.  Its not just the code writers that keep fvwm going.

I'm glad you came to the same conclusion about the Gnome/KDE stuff not
being  clear.  I wasn't  sure if I was missing  something.  I think it
could be important, but I am less sure, since I don't know what it is.

I just  took a look at  Blackbox.   I'm not  saying  this is all thats
needed, but this appears  to be part of  the picture.  This first part
can be compared to similar code in fvwm2:

  xa_wm_colormap_windows =
    XInternAtom(display, "WM_COLORMAP_WINDOWS", False);
  xa_wm_protocols = XInternAtom(display, "WM_PROTOCOLS", False);
  xa_wm_state = XInternAtom(display, "WM_STATE", False);
  xa_wm_change_state = XInternAtom(display, "WM_CHANGE_STATE", False);
  xa_wm_delete_window = XInternAtom(display, "WM_DELETE_WINDOW", False);
  xa_wm_take_focus = XInternAtom(display, "WM_TAKE_FOCUS", False);
  motif_wm_hints = XInternAtom(display, "_MOTIF_WM_HINTS", False);

Then it goes on to KDE:

#ifdef    KDE
  kwm_current_desktop = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_CURRENT_DESKTOP", False);
  kwm_number_of_desktops =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_NUMBER_OF_DESKTOPS", False);
  kwm_active_window = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_ACTIVE_WINDOW", False);
  kwm_win_iconified = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_ICONIFIED", False);
  kwm_win_sticky = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_STICKY", False);
  kwm_win_maximized = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_MAXIMIZED", False);
  kwm_win_decoration = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_DECORATION", False);
  kwm_win_icon = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_ICON", False);
  kwm_win_desktop = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_DESKTOP", False);
  kwm_win_frame_geometry =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WIN_FRAME_GEOMETRY", False);
     
  kwm_command = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_COMMAND", False);
  kwm_do_not_manage = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_DO_NOT_MANAGE", False);
  kwm_activate_window =
     XInternAtom(display, "KWM_ACTIVATE_WINDOW", False);

  kwm_running = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_RUNNING", False);
  kwm_module = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE", False);
  kwm_module_init = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_INIT", False);
  kwm_module_initialized =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_INITIALIZED", False);
  kwm_module_desktop_change =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_DESKTOP_CHANGE", False);
  kwm_module_win_change = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_WIN_CHANGE", False);
  kwm_module_desktop_name_change =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_DESKTOP_NAME_CHANGE", False);
  kwm_module_desktop_number_change =
    XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_DESKTOP_NUMBER_CHANGE", False);
  kwm_module_win_add = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_WIN_ADD", False);
  kwm_module_win_remove = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_MODULE_WIN_REMOVE", False);

  kwm_window_region_1 = XInternAtom(display, "KWM_WINDOW_REGION_1", False);
#endif // KDE

Then it goes on to "Gnome", but its commented out:

  /* unsupported GNOME hints

     win_supporting_wm_check = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_PROTOCOLS", False);
     win_layer = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_LAYER", False);
     win_state = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_STATE", False);
     win_hints = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_HINTS", False);
     win_app_state = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_APP_STATE", False);
     win_expanded_size = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_EXPANDED_SIZE", False);
     win_icons = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_ICONS", False);
     win_workspace = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_WORKSPACE", False);
     win_workspace_count = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_WORKSPACE_COUNT", False);
     win_workspace_names = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_WORKSPACE_NAMES", False);
     win_client_list = XInternAtom(display, "_WIN_CLIENT_LIST", False);
  */

At least, now I have some hint...