Subject: Recent Changes

From: Brad Giaccio <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:50:00 -0500 (EST)

1. Thanks Bob, I love my new stackingorder patch, now I can go back to
using two desks again.

2. The new color stuff for shadowing, maybe its just me but I'm not sure I
like the colors it comes up with.  Previously I had rather definite lines
in my modules and now they all seem a little gray and blurry, gives me the
feeling I've run out of colors and need to restart with less running.
Unfortunatelly that doesn't help.

Now I'm sure I'll get used to it in a day or two.  But was wondering if
others had some thoughts.

3. Subject lines.  Now don't get me wrong discussio on topics is good, but
we seem to be getting in the habbit of carrying on several conversations
at once under one subject heading.  Which makes it a little difficult to
catch up on Monday morning when 3/4 of the messages fall under the same
subject.  So for example if you wanted to make comments on both points 2
and 3 of this message try to make the subject line suggest the contents.

Just some thoughts,
Brad

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:32:35 -0500

> others had some thoughts.

Please let me   know the background   color you are seeing this  with.
Most of my tests  showed improvement in the 3D  effect, but of  course
this is  partly  a perception issue,  which  can vary from   person to
person.

There  are factors being  applied to  the  calculation of brighter and
darker colors, perhaps some tuning is in order.

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From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:57:53 -0500 (EST)

Dan Espen <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > in my modules and now they all seem a little gray and blurry...

	On first glance, I'm rather inclined to agree with Brad. I think the
new color code may want a bit of tinkering, and a good deal of thoughtful
visual inspection of the results under as many varied environments as the
developers can manage to find.

	I'm hesitant to include screen shot attachments, so I put a couple
of before and after shots on my Web site:

	http://www.pcnet.com/~proteus/Fvwm/ColorShots.tar.gz

The file is about 330k. It contains 4 grabs of a window using one of my
commonly used styles:

	1. OldColor2.jpg -  a highlighted window with the old color code
	2. NewColor2.jpg -  a highlighted window with the new color code
	3. OldColor2a.jpg - a non-highlighted window with the old color code
	4. NewColor2a.jpg - a non-highlighted window with the new color code

	For my taste, I prefer the slightly crisper look of the old style; but
we may be able to reproduce this more closely with the new code, I don't know.
I haven't had a chance to examine it.

	Another thought: some user-configurability of the color algorithm would
be a nice idea. Or will I find that that's already there when I look at the
actual code changes?

- Bob

---

From: Maciej Stachowiak <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:12:47 EST

> developers can manage to find.

If this is the new algorithm I posted earlier, it definitely admits of
tuning very easily, since it multiplies the saturation and luminosity
by an arbitrary double. You can probably get a crisper look by using a
smaller shadow factor and a higher hilight factor. I was too lazy to
experiment very much with it when I implemented the change
originally. 

Oh yeah, having an additive factor on hilighting in addition to a
multiplicative one should probably result in crisper hilights as
well. Again, if you guys do figure out better settings and/or code
changes, please send them upstream. Originally, I missed the crisper
look too, but since I've grown to prefer the smoother look, I've been
too lazy to try to reproduce it.

> be a nice idea. Or will I find that that's already there when I look at the

I made all the tunable parameters of this algorithm user-settable in
scwm, but I am no longer totally certain how valuable that is. Hardly
anyone seems to change it from the default.

 - Maciej

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul D. Smith)
Date: 16 Nov 1998 12:57:18 -0500

%% Maciej Stachowiak <[email-masked]> writes:

  ms> I made all the tunable parameters of this algorithm user-settable
  ms> in scwm, but I am no longer totally certain how valuable that
  ms> is. Hardly anyone seems to change it from the default.

That's pretty darn picky, to change something like that :).

Perhaps what we'd prefer is two or three or four alternatives that look
sufficiently different, and document them in the man page or something
("this one gives deep shadows... this one is smooth..." etc.)  No one
is (probably) going to play with the numbers themselves, just like
Maciej didn't bother :)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Smith <[email-masked]>         Network Management Development
 "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:03:45 -0500

> anyone seems to change it from the default.

The tuning is in libs/ColorUtils.c:

Pixel GetShadow(Pixel background) {
 return adjust_pixel_brightness(background, 0.7);
}
Pixel GetHilite(Pixel background) {
 return adjust_pixel_brightness(background, 1.3);
}

.7 is for the background, 1.3 is the foreground.
For more definition try .6 and 1.4.  I think they will be close to
the original.

BTW, in the code at home, these are at least #define'd.

I haven't provided any means of external control.