Subject: Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Jul 2003 18:53:33 -0400

%% Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]> writes:

  oc> Start "gnome-session" in my .xinitrc
  oc> (+ before: export FVWM_USERDIR=/home/olivier/.fvwm-fd
  oc>           fvwm-themes-start --session gnome --no-start
  oc> but this is for my fvwm config).
  oc> Then, I've metacity as window manager. I open a terminal and run
  oc>     fvwm -r [-f themes-rc] &
  oc> Then, fvwm replace metacity smoothly. When leaving the session
  oc> I save it. After that, when I start gnome-session fvwm is used
  oc> in the place of metacity (no need to save the session again for
  oc> further gnome-session start).

Hm.  I upgraded my system to Gnome 2.2.  The default window manager is
sawfish.

When I run "fvwm -r" (this is FVWM 2.5.7) then FVWM starts, but sawfish
doesn't stop!!  IOW, my FVWM button bar appears but all my windows,
including the button bar, are still decorated by sawfish not FVWM.

Any ideas?

If we could get this working it would be nice to have an entry for Gnome
2 in the FAQ, because the current info there for Gnome is all Gnome 1.x
based (there is no Window Manager option under the control panel
etc. anymore, that I can find...)

-- 
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 Paul D. Smith <[email-masked]>   HASMAT--HA Software Mthds & Tools
 "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
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---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:12:59 +0300

> including the button bar, are still decorated by sawfish not FVWM.

"killall sawfish"? If this does not work and it is restarted, try to
remove sawfish from the Session Properties dialog (I hope there is one
in GNOME 2).

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:33:42 -0400

%% Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]> writes:

  mg> "killall sawfish"? If this does not work and it is restarted, try
  mg> to remove sawfish from the Session Properties dialog (I hope there
  mg> is one in GNOME 2).

Yes, this is what I eventually did.  Yes there is a session control
dialog; it's here:

  Foot -> Applications -> Desktop Preferences -> Advanced -> Sessions

However, after I killed sawfish and started fvwm, fvwm does not appear
in the list of apps in the current session in the session manager.  It
used to appear there in Gnome 1.4 (that's how I switched last time), but
no longer.  Note I'm using the gnome session manager, not fvwm's session
manager.  Do I need to start fvwm with a special flag for this?

I compiled fvwm with almost everything enabled, except the GNOME support
for FvwmGtk (because there's no gnome-config on my system: for some
reason it's not provided with the gnome2 development packages on
Debian).

Since it's not there, when I save my session, then log out and back in,
it won't know to restart fvwm.

Another thing is that the fonts don't look so hot anymore: I'm using
Microsoft's Arial TrueType font for window titles, menus, etc. and they
used to look excellent, but now they look blocky and uneven.  They still
look great in some parts of the desktop (stuff that's rebuilt
specifically for Gnome 2?), but not others.  Anyone have any ideas?  I
think it's because I'm using a different font server/rendering engine
(freetype2?) but I don't know the details.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:43:26 -0400

> reason it's not provided with the gnome2 development packages on

I don't know about the rest of your issues, but gnome-config
is for Gnome 1.

pkg-config is for Gnome 2.

-- 
Dan Espen                           E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:44:56 -0400

%% Dan Espen <[email-masked]> writes:

  >> reason it's not provided with the gnome2 development packages on

  de> I don't know about the rest of your issues, but gnome-config
  de> is for Gnome 1.

  de> pkg-config is for Gnome 2.

So, I guess this means that the FVWM configure.in needs to be updated to
grok this change--or, Mikhael/Olivier, do you think there are other
changes needed to support Gnome2?

I can do the configure.in changes, if someone can tell me how pkg-config
should be invoked.  Unfortunately on my system when I invoke --list-all
I get weird errors, so I don't think using my system as an example is a
good idea:

  # pkg-config --list-all
  libpng                    libpng10 - Loads and saves PNG files
  libpng10                  libpng10 - Loads and saves PNG files
  glib-2.0                  GLib - C Utility Library
  libxml                    libXML - libXML library.
  gnome-vfs-module-2.0      gnome-vfs-module - The GNOME virtual file-system module include info
  imlib                     Imlib - An image loading and rendering library for X11R6
  gnome-mime-data-2.0       gnome-mime-data - Base set of file types and applications for GNOME
  libbonobo-2.0             libbonobo - libbonobo
  gtk+                      GTK+ - GIMP Tool Kit
  gobject-2.0               GObject - GLib Type, Object, Parameter and Signal Library
  Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
  Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-2.0.pc'
  to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
  Package 'gtk+-2.0', required by 'gnome-window-settings-2.0', not found

:(

So, is there a particular pkg-config package we should be looking for?

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:44:56 -0400

# pkg-config --list-all

:(

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:24:05 +0300

> changes needed to support Gnome2?

Don't worry about gnome-config, there are bigger issues like adding
support for GTK+ version 2 in FvwmGtk.

You don't need gnome-libs support. The only difference is whether you get
core file dumped or the GNOME Bug Report dialog when FvwmGtk is crashed
(if you use FvwmGtk at all), nothing more interesting then this.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:07:52 +0200

> (freetype2?) but I don't know the details.

What are your exact fvwm configuration lines for loading font?  Do you
use Xft or core fonts rendering?

About FreeType2 lib, a compile time option (off by default for licence
reseon) can lead to a better font rendering.

Using a font server (as xfs) or not can also change fonts rendering
(for core fonts rendering).

Regards, Olivier

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:27:01 -0400

%% Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]> writes:

  >> Another thing is that the fonts don't look so hot anymore: I'm
  >> using Microsoft's Arial TrueType font for window titles, menus,
  >> etc. and they used to look excellent, but now they look blocky and
  >> uneven.

  oc> What are your exact fvwm configuration lines for loading font?  Do
  oc> you use Xft or core fonts rendering?

Oh gack.  This one is my fault.

I'm using Arial at home, but at work I was using adobe-helvetica.  I
guess it was a bitmapped font or something, anyway it looked bad.

I installed the new free Bitstream Vera TrueType fonts and switched to
using those with the xft: method, and it looks sweet now!  You do have
to remember to put in the minspace=True, I find, because the default is
definitely False and you definitely get too much space above/below the
font without minspace=True.

Cool!

And sorry about the false alarm...

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:29:26 -0400

All the rest of my problems seem solved, except this one: anyone have
any idea whether the Gnome 2.2 session manager is sufficiently different
that it doesn't grok FVWM?

%% I wrote:

  sp> Yes, this is what I eventually did.  Yes there is a session
  sp> control dialog; it's here:

  sp>   Foot -> Applications -> Desktop Preferences -> Advanced -> Sessions

  sp> However, after I killed sawfish and started fvwm, fvwm does not
  sp> appear in the list of apps in the current session in the session
  sp> manager.  It used to appear there in Gnome 1.4 (that's how I
  sp> switched last time), but no longer.  Note I'm using the gnome
  sp> session manager, not fvwm's session manager.

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:40:50 +0200

> that it doesn't grok FVWM?

I work hard on this today but do not found the trick :o/ I guess that
the problem is a _simple_ thing that fvwm do not do or do.

Regards, Olivier

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:02:30 +0200

> the problem is a _simple_ thing that fvwm do not do or do.

Ok, I've found the problem: the gnome-session editor wants
the SmCloneCommand. I will commit a "fix" soon.

Regards, Olivier

---

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 19 Jul 2003 08:01:12 -0400

oc> Ok, I've found the problem: the gnome-session editor wants
  oc> the SmCloneCommand. I will commit a "fix" soon.

Excellent; thanks Olivier.

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:37:52 +0200

> Excellent; thanks Olivier.

Current cvs contains the "fix".

Regards, Olivier