Subject: Gnome 2 and FVWM

From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 23 Apr 2003 18:01:49 -0400

At work we just migrated to Red Hat 8.0.  The WM that comes with Gnome
is _sooo_ sad and pathetic that I couldn't stand it for more than a few
seconds, so I switched back to FVWM, although I want to keep the Gnome
setup (panel, etc.) because we have some company customizations,
etc. there.

Overall I'm not having too many problems (except with Nautilus, but I'll
deal with that).  But, one thing that's annoying is that the Gnome
splash screen never disappears by itself.  It goes along showing the
icons of all the stuff it's loading until it gets to (I suppose) the WM,
then it just sits there.

I can click on it and it goes away, so it's not show-stopping, but it is
annoying.

I suspect that the splash screen is waiting for some kind of
notification from the WM that it's up and running before it proceeds; I
don't remember having this problem with Gnome 1.4 on my Debian box so I
guess it's new in Gnome 2 (or, *shudder*, in Bluecurve specifically?)

Anyone know what's up here?  I'm using FVWM 2.5.6.

-- 
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 Paul D. Smith <[email-masked]>   HASMAT--HA Software Mthds & Tools
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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:20:52 +0200

> Anyone know what's up here?  I'm using FVWM 2.5.6.

I will take a look. It is maybe a session management issue. How do
you start fvwm with GNOME2?

Regards, Olivier

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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:24:56 +0200

On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 06:01:49PM -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> deal with that).

There is a new bindings context "D" which may help a bit with Nautilus
desktop.

> But, one thing that's annoying is that the Gnome

I cannot reproduce this problem if I use the following procedure
for starting fvwm with GNOME 2:
Start "gnome-session" in my .xinitrc
(+ before: export FVWM_USERDIR=/home/olivier/.fvwm-fd
          fvwm-themes-start --session gnome --no-start
but this is for my fvwm config).
Then, I've metacity as window manager. I open a terminal and run
    fvwm -r [-f themes-rc] &
Then, fvwm replace metacity smoothly. When leaving the session
I save it. After that, when I start gnome-session fvwm is used
in the place of metacity (no need to save the session again for
further gnome-session start).

I get various problems if I use others procedures ...

I have GNOME version "2.0-Mandrake 9.0".

Regards, Olivier

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From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Apr 2003 09:59:37 -0400

>> Overall I'm not having too many problems (except with Nautilus, but I'll

  oc> There is a new bindings context "D" which may help a bit with Nautilus
  oc> desktop.

This looks good, I'll try it out, thanks!

  >> But, one thing that's annoying is that the Gnome splash screen
  >> never disappears by itself.  It goes along showing the icons of all
  >> the stuff it's loading until it gets to (I suppose) the WM, then it
  >> just sits there.

  oc> I cannot reproduce this problem if I use the following procedure
  oc> for starting fvwm with GNOME 2:
  oc> Start "gnome-session" in my .xinitrc
  oc> (+ before: export FVWM_USERDIR=/home/olivier/.fvwm-fd
  oc>           fvwm-themes-start --session gnome --no-start
  oc> but this is for my fvwm config).
  oc> Then, I've metacity as window manager. I open a terminal and run
  oc>     fvwm -r [-f themes-rc] &
  oc> Then, fvwm replace metacity smoothly. When leaving the session
  oc> I save it. After that, when I start gnome-session fvwm is used
  oc> in the place of metacity (no need to save the session again for
  oc> further gnome-session start).

Hm.  This is what I did:

  * Gnome session started from GDM, so .xinitrc is not used
  * In the session manager, I changed the metacity value from "Restart"
    to "Normal", so the session manager wouldn't restart it when I
    killed it.
  * Ran "killall metacity; sleep 1; fvwm &"
  * Saved my session

That seems essentially the same thing as you've done?

Either there is a difference in our configuration, or the splashscreen
that comes with RH 8.0 is different somehow than the "normal" Gnome
splashscreen.

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:51:01 +0200

> That seems essentially the same thing as you've done?

Yes.
 
> that comes with RH 8.0 is different somehow than the "normal" Gnome

I've noted one thing: fvwm does not appear in the list of running
application in the gnome-session manager GUI (metacity appear). Maybe
gnome-session and fvwm are not agree on one point of the SM protocol
and your splash screen does not detect that fvwm is started (but
clearly "save session" works fine).  My version of gnome-session is
gnome-session-2.0.5-4mdk.  Mikhael any idea?

Also in the session manager I've a check box which allows to disable
the splash screen.

By the way, I am interested by any remarks concerning possible bad
interaction between GNOME 2 and FVWM.

Regards, Olivier

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:20:57 +0000

> gnome-session-2.0.5-4mdk.  Mikhael any idea?

I have gnome-session-2.2.0.2, but I am pretty overloaded with other
things to try and debug it now. Maybe later.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: "Paul Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Apr 2003 12:38:25 -0400

FYI, it appears that Red Hat 8.0 comes with gnome-session 2.0.5.

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From: Alexander Kotelnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:32:56 +0400

>>>>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:51:01 +0200
>>>>> "OC" == Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]> wrote:
OC> 
OC> By the way, I am interested by any remarks concerning possible bad
OC> interaction between GNOME 2 and FVWM.

So, Olivier, could you please list which fvwm versions should work with
gnome 1 and which with gnome 2? Are any fvwm build options related to
this coexistence?

-- 
Alexander Kotelnikov
Saint-Petersburg, Russia

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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:01:37 +0200

> gnome 1 and which with gnome 2? Are any fvwm build options related to

GNOME 1.x should work with FVWM 2.4.x and FVWM 2.5.x.  You can disable
this support at compile time with 2.4.x but not with 2.5.x.
See also the GnomeIgnoreHints style.

GNOME >= 2 and KDE >= 2 should work only with FVWM 2.5.x but a recent
snapshot is recommended (take a look at the "EXTENDED WINDOW MANAGER
HINTS" section of the fvwm man page as well as all the EWMH* styles
and commands and the DesktopName command).

There are some patches for certain version of FVWM 2.4.x which allows
GNOME >= 2 and KDE >= 2 to work with FVWM 2.4.x. These patches are not
supported anymore.

Regards, Olivier