Subject: Button Order changed from 2.5.5 to 2.5.6

From: Kingsly John <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 13:30:31 +0530

Hi!

I have buttons 1,2,4 activated for my regular windows and for aterms alone I
use this Style...

Style "aterm" TitleAtLeft, HandleWidth 3,  MouseFocusClickRaises, NoButton 2,
NoButton 4

Previously Button 1 used to appear at the top-end of the TitleBar.. now it
appears at the bottom-end!

You can see it here at http://kingsly.net/fvwm-bug.png (The aterm in the
foreground is from 2.5.6 and the one below it in the background is from a
screenshot I'd taken of 2.5.5)

The only thing I could see in the changelogs is the new style options ..
!UseTitleDecorRotation / UseTitleDecorRotation 

I tried both of them.. and they have no effect whatsoever on the button
layout or even the title text. (What is it that those options do anyways ?)

Kingsly

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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:57:11 +0100

> layout or even the title text. (What is it that those options do anyways ?)

I do not think that there is a bug here. It is a new feature of 2.5.6.
Buttons, title text and decoration (if UseTitleDecorRotation) accordingly
to:
LeftTitleRotatedCW / LeftTitleRotatedCCW, 
RightTitleRotatedCCW  /  RightTitleRotatedCW,

Try: Style aterm LeftTitleRotatedCW

Regards, Olivier

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From: Kingsly John <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 15:09:24 +0530

> Try: Style aterm LeftTitleRotatedCW

This brings the button back to where it used to be before... but the text
gets "inverted" that is the base of the text points away from the
term(leftwards) instead of towards the term.

And both !UseTitleDecorRotation and UseTitleDecorRotation don't really seem
to do anything at all!

Kingsly

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:04:25 +0000

> term(leftwards) instead of towards the term.

I don't think anything should be changed in the code.
Try to get used to a new feature, it seems intuitive for me.

If you really want the previous behaviour, you may configure buttons
differently for aterm like this (not generally recomended, but may work):

  Style * Button 1, Button 2, Button 4, NoButton 8
  Style aterm NoButton 1, NoButton 2, NoButton 4, Button 8

And setup ButtonStyle definitions and bindings to be equivalent for
titlebar buttons 1 and 8.

> And both !UseTitleDecorRotation and UseTitleDecorRotation don't really seem

It makes no difference because you don't use real decorations, just a
solid background color.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Kingsly John <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:54:54 +0530

> Try to get used to a new feature, it seems intuitive for me.

Are you left-handed by any chance? because I don't find it intuitive at all,
whenever there is sideways text, it's almost always with the base of the
letters facing right.(Look for any widthwise ads in magazines.. and you'll
find that the top of the ad is at the left end of the page.)
(I flipped through a bunch of magazines lying here and looked at some
hardware boxes and I couldn't find anything which had bottom-top text with
the base facing left. and even when I'm making notes in the margin the base
of my letters face the right.)

While I agree that the TitleAtLeft is performing as it should (logical -90
degree turn) and the old behaviour would have been 'unexpected' ... I'm not
sure how many people would find it easy to read text the way it's currently
rendered when rotated.

You can see here text facing both sides...

http://kingsly.net/fvwm-bug2.png
http://kingsly.net/fvwm-bug3.png

Kingsly

PS: I rest my case.

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From: Ethan Blanton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 01:34:31 -0500

> of my letters face the right.)

Sort of ... look at your bookshelf.  Unless you're Russian, but your
name doesn't sound it.  ;-)

> http://kingsly.net/fvwm-bug3.png

I looked at both of these, and I have to say that while I have always
thought of text with the baseline towards the window as the "right"
way, the text with the baseline to the left seemed easier to read to
me.  Interesting...

Ethan

-- 
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

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From: Kingsly John <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:10:44 +0530

> name doesn't sound it.  ;-)

Looks like I overlooked the obvious! Even my game boxes have text facing
left(the same applies to CD/DVD cases too). But whenever there is text facing
both directions (regular and sideways) the the base faces right. I guess
that's why the magazine ads are that way because of the text on the other
page.

> way, the text with the baseline to the left seemed easier to read to

Interesting.

BTW LeftTitleRotatedCCW doesn't do anything to my style.. is that also
because I have no decoration. ?

Kingsly

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:38:59 +0100

> that's why the magazine ads are that way because of the text on the other

We really did think about the better text rotation.  When the
title is at the left side of the window, it is more likely that
the title is left from the middle of your face.  Assuming that one
tends to tilt the head towards the window title (and definitely
never away from it), this somewhat reduces the angle at which you
look at the text.

That said, I think it's a bad decision to place the odd numbered
title buttons near the beginning of the title.  They always belong
at the top of the window.  Anything else is utterly confusing.  I
see no real dependency between the orientation of the title and
the placement of the buttons.  They just happened to be near the
beginning of the title by chance.

[snip]

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:30:24 +0000

> beginning of the title by chance.

We had this discussion in the past.

I don't think odd numbered buttons always belong to the top, they belong
to the left of the title if we rotate our head in the needed direction.
This is more obvious for more complex non symmetrical titlebar designs.
For me, only rotating the whole titlebar makes sence, anything else is
utterly confusing.

However, I am not against having flags for separate text and button
rotation if this makes some users happy.

Regards,
Mikhael.