Subject: Re: FVWM: Transient Flicker

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:50:03 +0200

On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 01:50:24PM -0700, Tim Freedom wrote:
> With both snap-20021010 and snap-20021015 I've noticed that transients
> (well netscape's "Open Page" -- CTRL-O specifically) seems to flicker
> badly (twice I think) upon bring-up.  There were no changes to the
> .fvwm2rc file, the only mention of anything related to transients is,
> 
>   Style "*" MouseFocus, GrabFocusTransient
>   Style "*" MWMFunctions, MWMDecor
>   Style "*" Color White/DimGray, WindowListSkip, NoHandles,
>             DecorateTransient, BorderWidth 3
> 
> Where there any changes in that realm or am I doing something wrong ?

Fixed.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

 --
Dominik Vogt, [email-masked]
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---

From: Tim Freedom <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:03:40 -0700 (PDT)

> > Where there any changes in that realm or am I doing something wrong ?

I confirm the fix (with snap-20021022) -- one last thing on a related
topic.  The following was noted earlier in the thread that is still
annoying,

	Another thing to note, why is it that transients are
	always above other windows beyond their initial bring-up
	state.  In other words, I have this "Open Page" Window
	which when comes up flickers :-) and then gets focus and
	I can type into it no matter where my cursor was -- which
	is cool.  But assume I want to paste-in something that was
	on its parent window, if I move the mouse (and I use MouseFocus)
	to purposely lose the focus on the transient, the transient
	resists being lowered.  If I force a "lower yourself" command
	on it, the parent gets lowered as well - is this intended
	behavior ?  Does anyone else see it a bit too forceful and
	harsh ? I would have thought that the 'GrabFocusTransient'
	just grabs the focus and raises itself upon bring-up.
	Ideally, the transient should be at least "forcible" to be
	lowered if one opted to do it via a 'lower' command, no ?

And the reply was to use,

  Style * !RaiseTransient, !LowerTransient, !StackTransientParent

which indeed does work, but not as expected (well not kinda).  Here's
what I think most users would expect.  Assume I have a parent window-A
which  overlaps another parent window-B.  If in window-A I bring-up a
transient window and then raise window-A (ie. in essence raise it
above the transient) all looks fine.  Assume then that I move the mouse
to window-B (having MouseFocus), window-B gets focus -- all great so
far.  Now if I go back to window-A, the transient should come-up instead
of the parent, no ?  In other words, I should be able to lower the
transient as long as the focus is on the parent, but if the parent
losses focus, then the transient should raise itself above that parent.
Let me rephrase (again, just in case), the transient should always be
on top (raised) unless I specifically lower it (or specifically raise
its parent), and the transient should stay lowered as long as its
parent has focus, once that focus is lost from the parent the transient
should again regain its "raised" status.

I tried the various permutations of the misc. 'Raise' and 'Transient'
commands and couldn't get it to do what's described.  Is it possible ?

Much thanks all for a great window manager and keep up the
wonderful work.

 .tf.

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:47:33 +0200

> commands and couldn't get it to do what's described.  Is it possible ?

Well, that would confuse and annoy me immensely :-)  I'm quite
sure you wouldn't be happy with the automatic raising either.  If
you can cope without the automatism,

  Style RaiseTransient, LowerTransient, !StackTransientParent

should come close enough.  When you raise the parent, the
transient will come back up.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

---

From: Tim Freedom <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:35:20 -0700 (PDT)

> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 02:03:40PM -0700, Tim Freedom wrote:
[snip]
> transient will come back up.

I guess what would constitutes annoying is debatable :-)  What you note
doesn't allow me to lower a transient below its parent and as such its
not really what I was after.  In short, I take it what I'm asking for
is simply not doable, right ?

Thanks

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:36:51 +0200

On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 06:35:20PM -0700, Tim Freedom wrote:
> not really what I was after.

Um, yes, but that's just because I forgot to add a style name.
Try this:

  Style * RaiseTransient, LowerTransient, !StackTransientParent
       ^^^

> In short, I take it what I'm asking for is simply not doable,
> right ?

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

---

From: Tim Freedom <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:55:59 -0800 (PST)

--- Dominik Vogt wrote:
[snip]
>   Style * RaiseTransient, LowerTransient, !StackTransientParent

I'm still unable to accomplish what I had described earlier.  With
the correction I can't really lower (and keep lowered) a transient
(again I use MouseFocus).

Brief Description - have window-A, want to lower its transient
(assume I want to cut-n-paste from the parent into the transient
post pop-up), if I then change windows and move my mouse to
window-B (window-A's transient is still lowered) and attain focus
on window-B and then return to window-A, I'd like to see window-A's
transient raised and focused.

Is what I described doable ?

Thanks

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:54:12 +0100

> (again I use MouseFocus).

And you are *really* using fvwm-2.5.4?  For older versions, use

  Style * RaiseTransient, LowerTransient, DontStackTransientParent

> Is what I described doable ?

Maybe with some incredibly clever scripting.  The easiest way
would be to just use FvwmAuto.  But then, all windows will be
raised, not just transients.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^