Subject: Re: Notification: incoming/912

From: Matthias Clasen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:33:19 +0200 (MEST)

Dominik, I saw that you closed that bug. I agree - for the loosing windows
part.
The ignoring _NET_WM_DESKTOP part is still an open bug, IMO.

Matthias

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:41:07 +0200

> The ignoring _NET_WM_DESKTOP part is still an open bug, IMO.

I disagree on this one.  The old window manager can not know how
many desktops the user has configured in fvwm (and actually not
even fvwm knows it because it's a dynamic thing the users does,
not a fixed setting).  So dumping windows on any other but the
default desktop may well cause them to be lost forever.  Maybe an
option to the "-replace" option is in order.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

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From: Matthias Clasen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:52:26 +0200 (MEST)

> option to the "-replace" option is in order.

I think fvwm should pick up the number of desktops from 
_NET_NUMBER_OF_DESKTOPS (left behind by the previous wm) and
falling short of that it could at least put windows on the the closest
available desktop (i.e. if you find a toplevel with _NET_WM_DESKTOP=20
but fvwm is configured with a fixed set of 4 desktops, put the toplevel
on desk 4...)

Out of interest, does fvwm implement the following aspect of EWMH ?

"The Window Manager should honor _NET_WM_DESKTOP whenever a withdrawn window
requests to be mapped."

If yes, how does it handle invalid desktop numbers there ?

Matthias

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From: Matthias Clasen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:52:26 +0200 (MEST)

Matthias

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From: Bob Woodside <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:14:19 -0400

On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:41:07 +0200
Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> wrote:

> default desktop may well cause them to be lost forever.

	Only if the user doesn't panic - WindowList will still show them and allow you
to go to them.

	Modules like the Pager, of course, may not be configured to show a particular
desktop; and a user may have key bindings to a GoToDesk cycling function that
doesn't take into account a desktop number that some desktop-managing program
thinks we should know about. But the windows shouldn't be lost forever.

Cheers,
Bob

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:23:30 +0200

> but fvwm is configured with a fixed set of 4 desktops, put the toplevel

The notion of a closest available desktop is meaningless in fvwm.
Fvwm cannot be configured to use a fixed set of desktops and doing
so would limit its functionality.  The EWMH spec is simply flawed
in respect to desktop handling because it demands that the maximum
number of used desktops must be known beforehand.  This is not
the case in a number of window managers, namely probably all the
spin-offs from fvwm.  There *are* users who like to always have a
'previous' and a 'next' desk, no matter what desk they're
currently working on.  The EWMH spec doesn't allow this.  It's a
typical case where the existing pager implementations in KDE/Gnome
needlessly enforced the policy of how to do things in the EWMH -
simply because it would have caused more work to do it
policy-free.  (That's why I'm strongly opposed to using that
spec.)  Anyway, in the unlikely case that you're really interested
in what I think about the EWMH spec, I'd prefer to dicuss that in
private.

> "The Window Manager should honor _NET_WM_DESKTOP whenever a withdrawn window

Luckily, no.  It's a write-only property in fvwm (unless I
misunderstand the code).

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

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