Subject: [PATCH] Fix for SnapAttraction

From: Tomas Ogren <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:32:50 +0200

Heya folks.

Just noticed that SnapAttraction doesn't do what the man page says..
SnapMode is supposed to be set to All if only one argument is given..
but it doesn't set it which leaves it at whatever it was before
(probably nothing if you just started) ... so here's a fix..

diff -u -r1.133 move_resize.c
--- move_resize.c       2001/04/05 23:34:34     1.133
+++ move_resize.c       2001/04/11 01:26:19
@@ -1672,6 +1672,7 @@
   token = PeekToken(action, &action);
   if (token == NULL)
   {
+    Scr.SnapMode = SNAP_ICONS | SNAP_WINDOWS;
     return;
   }

2001-04-11  Tomas Ogren  <[email-masked]>

        * fvwm/move_resize.c:
        set SnapMode to icons + windows when no behavior is given like
        the man page says

/Tomas
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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:35:16 +0200

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:32:50AM +0200, Tomas Ogren wrote:
> (probably nothing if you just started)

I think you misread the man page.  It does not state that the
behaviour is overwritten by its default setting if it is left out:

  Calling this command without arguments reinstates the default
  settings.

  ...

  The behavior argument is optional and may be set to one of the
  four following values:

  ...

  The default SnapAttraction setting for behavior is All.

This only implies that the default behaviour is restored if the
command is called with no arguments, not if it's called with one
argument.  The explanation could be a bit more clear, though.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

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---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:49:16 +0200

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:27:07PM +0200, Tomas Ogren wrote:
> On 11 April, 2001 - Dominik Vogt sent me these 1.0K bytes:
> 
> Well.. If you start fvwm and run 'snapattraction 5', you won't get any
> snap attraction at all which is kinda confusing. The man page said that
> the default value for behaviour is All, which is what I should get if I
> don't specify it IMO..
> 
> IMO it should behave like my patch does or atleast default to snapping
> against stuff..

I see.  I have made a patch that does this:

 "Snapattraction" is equivalent to "Snapattraction 0 All"
 "Snapattraction n" sets the value but does not change the
 behavior.  If no behavior was ever specified, "All" is used.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

P.S.: Please always reply to the mailing list, not directly to me.

---

From: Tomas Ogren <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:07:07 +0200

>  behavior.  If no behavior was ever specified, "All" is used.

Well.. then 'Snapattraction 5' still won't do anything which I suppose
new users will assume..

> P.S.: Please always reply to the mailing list, not directly to me.

Then don't use "Reply-To: [email-masked]" :)

/Tomas

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:36:58 +0200

> Well.. then 'Snapattraction 5' still won't do anything which I suppose

Why do you think that?  As I said:

 1) If no behavior was ever specified, "All" is used.
 2) "Snapattraction n" sets the value but does not change the behavior.

==>

An initial "Snapattraction 5" is equivalent to "Snapattraction 5 All".
Try it and you will see :)

> Then don't use "Reply-To: [email-masked]" :)

Doh :)

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

---

From: "Paul D. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2001 12:39:05 -0400

>> P.S.: Please always reply to the mailing list, not directly to me.

  to> Then don't use "Reply-To: [email-masked]" :)

Actually, this has nothing to do with it.  The Reply-To field is to be
used in preference to the From: field when emailing the originator of
the message.  That's _all_ it means.  In particular note that Reply-To
in email is _not_ the same thing at all as Followup-To in USENET.

Reply-To is there to help out those whose email infrastructure
"helpfully" rewrites their From: address for them, and/or they want to
use a different address to receive mail than is normally placed in the
From: field.

In short, these two sets of headers:

  From: [email-masked]
  Reply-To: [email-masked]
  To: [email-masked]

And:

  From: [email-masked]
  To: [email-masked]

should be treated identically by your mail agent.

What you need to do is use the "followup to all recipients" feature of
your mail agent, rather than the "reply to author" feature...

Ain't email fun! :).

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---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2001 12:05:44 -0500

>>>>> "PDS" == Paul D Smith <[email-masked]> writes:

PDS> Actually, this has nothing to do with it.  The Reply-To field is to be
PDS> used in preference to the From: field when emailing the originator of
PDS> the message.  That's _all_ it means.  In particular note that Reply-To
PDS> in email is _not_ the same thing at all as Followup-To in USENET.

As someone who has been through this debate more times than I wish to
count, I will point out three things:

1) When making statements of this type, quote chapter and verse.  From
   RFC822:

     4.4.3.  REPLY-TO / RESENT-REPLY-TO

        This field provides a general  mechanism  for  indicating  any
        mailbox(es)  to which responses are to be sent.  Three typical
        uses for this feature can  be  distinguished.   In  the  first
        case,  the  author(s) may not have regular machine-based mail-
        boxes and therefore wish(es) to indicate an alternate  machine
        address.   In  the  second case, an author may wish additional
        persons to be made aware of, or responsible for,  replies.   A
        somewhat  different  use  may be of some help to "text message
        teleconferencing" groups equipped with automatic  distribution
        services:   include the address of that service in the "Reply-
        To" field of all messages  submitted  to  the  teleconference;
        then  participants  can  "reply"  to conference submissions to
        guarantee the correct distribution of any submission of  their
        own.

2) Your interpretation is but one of several.  Interpretation is generally
   by the MUA, unless the replier rewrites the headers manually or the MUA
   prompts.  (The latter is probably the best in light of differing
   interpretations, but many MUAs minimize prompting in an attempt to be
   "user friendly".
 
3) Reply-To: is rather overloaded in a mailing list context.

The latter two points basically mean that if you want to guarantee that you
don't see the kinds of issues that Dominik is seeing, you should munge your
From: header if at all possible and leave Reply-To: alone.

 - J<

---

From: "Paul D. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2001 13:27:04 -0400

%% Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]> writes:

  jlt> The latter two points basically mean that if you want to
  jlt> guarantee that you don't see the kinds of issues that Dominik is
  jlt> seeing, you should munge your From: header if at all possible and
  jlt> leave Reply-To: alone.

Unfortunately for many of us that's impossible: any local address I put
in my From: is "helpfully" reformatted by sendmail or Exchange rules to
be what you see in this message.  When I typed in and _sent_ this
message, the From: field was:

  From: "Paul D. Smith" <[email-masked]>

Of course, our "oh so helpful" mail munging also whacks Reply-To:, not
just From:, so for me the distinction is moot :).

---

From: "Paul D. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2001 13:29:49 -0400

BTW, are you saying you know of mailers that, when given this set of
headers:

and a "followup to all recipients" command, send _only_ to the address
in the Reply-To: field?

I've been using email for a _lot_ of years now, including some pretty
broken MUAs, but I've never seen one _that_ broken.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:31:07 +0200

> From: header if at all possible and leave Reply-To: alone.

You are probably right.  I always wanted to give people a chance
to reply to me directly if they really know what they are doing,
but in the end it's not what I want in 90% of the cases.  Another
problem is to configure mutt to use the correct from header.

Anyway, I will do the same to the Reply-To: Header since some mail
clients insist on being super clever if its missing and ignore my
munged From: header.

Let's try...

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

---

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2001 13:23:35 -0500

>>>>> "PDS" == Paul D Smith <[email-masked]> writes:

PDS> and a "followup to all recipients" command, send _only_ to the address
PDS> in the Reply-To: field?

Some mailers do not have the separate concept of a "group reply".  And,
yes, some obey the Reply-To: header.  If you configure it so, Gnus will use
the Reply-To: header for group replies and the From: header for personal
replies (since that is what you would want when on a list that adds a
Reply-To: header back to itself).

PDS> I've been using email for a _lot_ of years now, including some pretty
PDS> broken MUAs, but I've never seen one _that_ broken.

I've been a mailing list manager (Majordomo) author for a bunch of years
now, and I've seen all kinds of MUA behavior and all kinds of user
expectations as well.

 - J<

---

From: Tomas Ogren <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:30:34 +0200

>  2) "Snapattraction n" sets the value but does not change the behavior.

Brain Malfunction Inc.<tm>(r)

> Try it and you will see :)

Works fine now.

/Tomas