Subject: The concept of etc/ configuration information

From: Psi-Jack <[email-masked]>
Date: 20 Apr 2000 12:09:24 CDT

I just came to the realization of something.

fvwm-config -c is wherever the ./configure --sysconfdir=/blah

Fvwm's default Script's are also placed in that same directory along with
the system.fvwm2rc. I don't think this should be done. The etcdir is used
for configuration, not scripts.

This came to me, while discussing with migo about fvwm-themes, how it
will use fvwm-config -c + /fvwm
Themes also do not belong in the etcdir,. They belong more in the
share/fvwm. Just like scripts and such.  

Almost every distribution uses /etc/X11/fvwm or /etc/X11/fvwm2 for it's
sysconfdir. And Scripts and themes should _never_ be put in a
configuration directory tree. As standard, themes and such would normally
be in the PREFIX/share/software-name, such would be /usr/share/fvwm/ or
/usr/local/share/fvwm (by default compiling method).

I'd like to see what you guys say to this. This is kind of a major issue
in theme-engine creation, and even pure standards.

-- 
  -- Psi-Jack <Jack into the Matrix/NOW!!!>

--
Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL:http://www.fvwm.org/>.
To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm-workers" in the
body of a message to [email-masked].
To report problems, send mail to [email-masked]

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:52:46 +0300

I am not quoting the original message, because it contains unrelevant (and
sometimes not exact) info. Here is the rewording of the raised problem.

We have in fvwm:
  FVWM_MODULEDIR='${libexecdir}/${PACKAGE}/${VERSION}'
  FVWM_CONFIGDIR='${sysconfdir}/${PACKAGE}'

In FVWM_CONFIGDIR currently we install configs (Config*), scripts
(Script*), and forms (Form*), I think none of them belong to $sysconfdir,
i.e. there is nothing that fvwm may want to install to /etc (if distros
use /etc for ${sysconfdir}).

So the fix is to change the second line to something like:
  FVWM_CONFIGDIR='${datadir}/${PACKAGE}'

where ${datadir} is usually ${prefix}/share or similar.
I will care about this if you all agree with it.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:02:36 -0400

> I will care about this if you all agree with it.

This was dealt with at length about a year and a half ago.
Check the mail archives.

--
Dan Espen
444 Hoes Lane  Room RRC 1C-214           E-mail: [email-masked]
Piscataway, NJ 08854                     Phone: (732) 699-5570
--
Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL:http://www.fvwm.org/>.
To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm-workers" in the
body of a message to [email-masked].
To report problems, send mail to [email-masked]

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:05:01 +0300

> This was dealt with at length about a year and a half ago.

I remember well why FVWM_MODULEDIR is this and not another. It is ok.
However, I don't recall reading about FVWM_CONFIGDIR, so I went to
archives: http://www.hpc.uh.edu/cgi-bin/w3glimpse/fvwm?query=sysconfdir

There were no scripts and forms installed in FVWM_CONFIGDIR in 19971208,
so still this old discussion does not explain why they should go to /etc.
Moreover I don't agree that even Config* files should go to /etc.
If distros want to put system.fvwm2rc in /etc (why?), ok, but not Config*.

So I am still quite sure that ${datadir} should be used instead of
${sysconfdir} for FVWM_CONFIGDIR.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:56:48 -0400

> > This was dealt with at length about a year and a half ago.

I take it back, my memory must be failing me.
All I see is Steve's comment:

http://www.hpc.uh.edu/fvwm/archive/9903/msg00687.html

I don't see any extended discussion.
I don't remember  why we didn't use datadir after that comment,
although I still don't see a difference between system.fvwm2rc
and any of the Form* files.  They contain exactly the same thing.

There was a thread about too many environment variables.

I do see one new file "script-fvwm-setup95.pl" thats almost an
executable, but its not marked executable, and it is read
as data by Perl.

---

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:25:31 +0200

Hello,
For me the choice between etc/ and share/ is not important.
The important point is the logic that use fvwm to read
configuration files: it first look the FVWM_USERHOME or
to HOME and then if the config file is not found it
look in the fvwm config dir (no exported variable here).
(there is also the complete path but here we found the
config file or we fail!).
There is a gap in my opinion in this procedure. Where
we install complex config system? (as fvwm-themes or
others). To take advantage of the above reading strategy
one want to install it in the fvwm config dir and this
is not "clean" and may cause some problems (we've got
some with fvwm-themes). So, the other alternative is to
install everything in the fvwm user home (and some none root
user must do such a things). Again, this is bad! I can
give some (technical) argument if you want.
The good place for complex config system is a 3rd directory
say share/name-of-the-theme-engine/* (share or pouf this
not really important but share seems good). Then, the "reading"
strategy will insert this new dir between the two others.
For that we can just allows FVWM_USERHOME to be "multidir"
as the Image Path so FVWM_USERHOME can be
        my_personal_stuff:dir_of_the_complex_engine
And every thing will be perfect in a marvelous world.
Olivier
--
Visit the official FVWM web page at <URL:http://www.fvwm.org/>.
To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm-workers" in the
body of a message to [email-masked].
To report problems, send mail to [email-masked]

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:48:58 +0300

> and any of the Form* files.  They contain exactly the same thing.

I don't see either. My point is, nothing in fvwm should be installed in
/etc, even system.fvwm2rc, everything in datadir.

> executable, but its not marked executable, and it is read

It is trickier. script-fvwm-setup95.pl is only used by ScriptFvwmSetup95,
so it should not be installed in bindir. I think it is ok to put it
together with ScriptFvwmSetup95, perl code is architecture independant and
should not be marked executable to be run.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:42:20 +0300

> And every thing will be perfect in a marvelous world.

Really interesting solution. But many sources will be affected by this
change. I suggest to stop this discussion for now and go step by step,
checking that nothing is broken. I will post tomorrow a patch for voting
implementing old suggestions. After that we can discuss new suggestions.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Steve Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:46:57 -0400 (EDT)

Hello FVWM workers!

I see that the list is going on strong ...

> > > use /etc for ${sysconfdir}).

[ ... ]

> so still this old discussion does not explain why they should go to /etc.

This is true.  At the time, the only way to configure FVWM was through
system.fvwm2rc or $HOME/.fvwm2rc.  When I was doing the autoconfiscation,
I used $sysconfigdir for the system-wide configuration file.

The forms and whatnot came along later.

I think that, to sort this out, one must decide what sort of directory
layout is desirable.  You can choose GNU standards, or the FHS, or
historical layouts from sunos, or some ad-hoc scheme.  Naturally, I'd be
inclined to pick one of the first two, which I believe are compatible, or
mostly so.

The advantage of using the FHS, say, is that you have a document to work
from (http://www.pathname.com/fhs) which already describes where config
files & script files belong.  

Then the hard part: deciding which files qualify as "configuration" files.
To me it is clear that "system.fvwm2rc" qualifies, while theme images, for
example, do not.

> ${sysconfdir} for FVWM_CONFIGDIR.

Perhaps there ought to be a third option: separate themes and scripts from
configuration files.

Keep up the good work,
-Steve

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:08:10 -0500 (CDT)

> The forms and whatnot came along later.

Yes, this is basically, in short, what I was trying to say.

> To me it is clear that "system.fvwm2rc" qualifies, while theme images, for

That's been my ideas of things. I just couldn't remember where the
standards were, or what they were called. I was thinking of the FHS,
for standardizations, which common distros use FHS and/or GNU blends.

> Perhaps there ought to be a third option: separate themes and scripts from

I'd planned to do this as a compromise. I'm just mainly wishing to have
a datadir of some kind that can be set, and used. At present, I have to
make my themer-engine use PREFIX/share/fvwm/*, instead of just from the
* and beyond. Makes for less complication if it could be implemented.

Eric Renfro