Subject: Finishing SelectOnRelease

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:14:57 -0500

As we discussed, in order to automatically configure
the built in windowlist to SelectOnRelease, we have to set more
of the defaults for the windowlist menu style.  If we don't, its
black and white, which will never do.

I propose this:

MenuStyle WindowList SelectOnRelease Meta_L
MenuStyle WindowList Foreground black, Background gray
MenuStyle WindowList Font 9x15bold, HilightBack darkgray

Its not shades of blue, which I will surely make  it for myself, but I
think it might have some mass appeal.

-- 
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---

From: "Paul D. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: 09 Feb 2000 09:28:33 -0500

> MenuStyle WindowList Font 9x15bold, HilightBack darkgray

Looks good to me.

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:07:41 +0100

> think it might have some mass appeal.

Okay.

How are we going to inform people that they have to
duplicate their settings of the default menu style
in the WindowList menu style?

Bye

Dominik ^_^

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:08:54 -0500

> in the WindowList menu style?

Well, they only  have  to duplicate their settings  if  they want  the
windowlist to look like a menu.

I guess for most  users, if the built  in  appearance is good  enough,
they'll leave it alone.

I  can see that  there are at   least 2 places  in the  fvwm2 man page
impacted by the new behavior.  (I haven't updated to CVS for 2 days.)

Are you thinking of something else?

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:08:44 +0200

> windowlist to look like a menu.

I intended to write about this several days ago, but had no time.
I am against any default, which can't be undone. Once we define WindowList
menu style, it can't be reverted again to inherit from *.

For me WindowList is a menu and nothing else. I, like many users, have
3 menus bound to 3 mouse buttons on root, one of them is WindowList.
I think you know that you can also get WindowList functionality using
FvwmGtk, in this case the menu uses the common GTK menu style.
This is a preferred approach - to share and inherit.

I think that menu styles as they are now are unusable (no inheritance).
A possible solution may be to implement UseMenuStyle or similar.
In this case, of course, there is no need to specially define colors for
WindowList. Until then I would not recomment using separate menu styles
at all and can't agree with the default above.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:22:13 -0500

> at all and can't agree with the default above.

Perhaps where  this went wrong  is when I  suggested that the new menu
behavior be  stored as a  menu style.  It  made the coding easy, but I
agree, I don't like the way this is causing a ripple effect.  It might
make more sense that  the behavior be tied  into how the windowlist is
invoked.

The flag would still have to be passed from the WindowList command
to the menu code...

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 05:34:41 +0100

> > > windowlist to look like a menu.

I meant:  how does the user know that he has to change
his/her config file?

> > menu style, it can't be reverted again to inherit from *.

  DestroyMenuStyle WindowList

Does the trick (as mentioned in the man page).

> > A possible solution may be to implement UseMenuStyle or similar.

The UseStyle style demonstrates that this approach does not work
reliably.  I could imagine a 'CopyMenuStyle' command, but a tree
structure of menu styles is too unwieldy.  That's the reason why
UseStyle is the only style that still needs a recapture.

> behavior be  stored as a  menu style.

No.  It's the only clean way.

> It  made the coding easy,

Not really.  Adding new styles is always much more complicated
than writing a hack.

> but I agree, I don't like the way this is causing a ripple
> effect.  It might make more sense that  the behavior be tied
> into how the windowlist is invoked.
> 

I've added a 'SelectOnRelease' option to the WindowList
command (on by default).

Bye

Dominik ^_^

--
Dominik Vogt, [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
--
The adjuration to be "normal" seems shockingly repellent to me; I see neither
hope nor comfort in sinking to that low level.  I think it is ignorance that
makes people think of abnormality only with horror and allows them to remain
undismayed at the proximity of "normal" to average and mediocre.  For surely
anyone who achieves anything is, essentially, abnormal.
                -- Dr. Karl Menninger, "The Human Mind", 1930

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:01:09 -0500

Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]> writes:
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:14:57AM -0500, [email-masked] wrote

There seem to be a lot of config file changes required to move from 2.2
to 2.4 (when its ready).

We are going to need to mention this in the announcement and describe the
changes somewhere.

> I've added a 'SelectOnRelease' option to the WindowList

Well, thats perfect!  No config file change and it works exactly like
an alt-tab person would expect.

> > When I use the Meta key as the select on release key,
> > the menu comes up with the hot keys underscored.
> > 
> > However, if you try to hit a hot key, it ignores the keystroke.
> > 
> > I've only tried this with the WindowList.
> > 
> > This is not a big problem, you need both hands to hit the number while
> > holding down meta, but  to be really robust, I  think it should accept
> > the number even with meta held down.
> 
> Duh, I've no idea how we can do this.  'Meta-1' is simply a
> different symbol.

According to  xev, Meta-1  is character  "1"  with the  Meta modifier.
Ignoring the meta modifier in the  hot key logic should  do it.  Still
I'm not sure  its necessary to  do anything.  Its  really hard to hold
down the  meta  key  and reach  over  and  hit  a number.   Its   just
misleading, we have the items numbered  and underscored, and you can't
hotkey them.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:13:41 +0100

> There seem to be a lot of config file changes required to move from 2.2

What do you have in mind?  The only thing I'm aware of are the
styles that have been removed from decors.  All other changes
concern only features introduced in 2.3.x or still support the
old syntax.

> We are going to need to mention this in the announcement and describe the

Definitely.

> an alt-tab person would expect.

That's the idea :-)
 
> misleading, we have the items numbered  and underscored, and you can't

I'll see what I can do.

Bye

Dominik ^_^