Subject: FvwmPager features ?

From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:52:48 +0100

Hello,
I ask if I can add two features to the Pager.

First one: Pager do not support aliases, but it is really useful to
use two Pagers (one for pages and the other for desks). The solution
is to use a symlink (using two pagers with the same name can cause
problems, I've got problem with sample-95). I suggest that we add a 
symlink when we install the fvwm modules. It seems, for me, that the 
unique problem is a choice for a name. I suggest FvwmDesker.

Second one:  I suggest to add the option *FvwmPagerGetFocus, so that
the pager can be autoraised.

Olivier

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:15:38 -0500

> unique problem is a choice for a name. I suggest FvwmDesker.

Using symlinks is the "old" way.  Using an alias on invocation is the
"new" way.

Since the current arguments to the pager are either numbers, or "*",
allowing for an alias should not present a problem.  Ie.:

Module FvwmPager FvwmDesker 0 3

> the pager can be autoraised.

I have no problem autoraising the pager.

Do you have:

Style * Lenience

> Olivier

I don't have an opinion about this going in before 2.4.
The additional argument change doesn't look like it could break much.

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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:18:12 +0100

> Module FvwmPager FvwmDesker 0 3

Yes of course this will be better, but a symlink is almost no work and I
am not sure that I can add aliases support for the Pager.

> I have no problem autoraising the pager.

Oops, thanks !
Olivier

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:17:21 +0200

> Using symlinks is the "old" way.  Using an alias on invocation is the

There is a problem with the "new" way. Aliases are not supported in the
module protocol, they are only local invocation hacks. For example, you
can't kill an aliased module (only) using KillModule, so you are stuck
to one alias per module anyway for things to work propertly.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:40:09 -0500

> to one alias per module anyway for things to work propertly.

Agreed.

The  "solution" is,  for modules that  are  transient in nature,  (for
example FvwmForm), the module provides the way to kill itself.
A number of modules aleady do this.

Getting back to FvwmPager:

I don't think stopping and starting the module is an issue.

I don't think a hard coded alias for one  arbitrary name is the way to
go.

I don't  see that  adding an   alias from  the command line   would be
especially difficult, or destabilize the  module.  All thats needed is
to parse out one additional argument, and put the value in "MyName".

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:01:49 +0200

> I don't think stopping and starting the module is an issue.

It is an issue in dynamic systems, like fvwm-themes.

I want to implement the following solution to solve the stopping problem:

  Module --name FvwmMyButtons FvwmButtons FvwmMyButtons
  KillModule FvwmMyButtons

> to parse out one additional argument, and put the value in "MyName".

The problem is a time, like Olivier already pointed.

Regards,
Mikhael.

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From: Olivier Chapuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:58:52 +0100

> to parse out one additional argument, and put the value in "MyName".

Exact, I just do it.
Now, is someone against that I commit this new "feature" ?
Olivier

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From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:31:40 -0500

> Now, is someone against that I commit this new "feature" ?

Good.  I think its a simple change, and I say commit it.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:36:40 -0500

>   Module --name FvwmMyButtons FvwmButtons FvwmMyButtons

Probably a good idea, but not before 2.4.  Any other opinions?

Note how this is so much simpler:

*FvwmButtonsStop

Or, even better, get FvwmButtons to react to changes without
terminating.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:41:48 -0500

> Note how this is so much simpler:

Sorry, either way could work, but this is more "standard":

SendToModule FvwmButtons Stop

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:13:18 +0200

> Probably a good idea, but not before 2.4.  Any other opinions?

I suggested implementing --name as a solution before 2.4, because it is
only about 5 lines of code. After 2.4 probably implementing a real alias
support in the core fvwm would be preferable.

> Or, even better, get FvwmButtons to react to changes without

I am speaking about termination of aliased module, not updating.

FvwmButtons was only an example. Your solution is good, but requires
adding this support to all modules to be generic.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Dan Espen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:54:47 -0500

> support in the core fvwm would be preferable.

Doing it one way, and then changing it again doesn't sound like a good
idea.

> adding this support to all modules to be generic.

I forgot to mention the other problem with module termination logic
being in fvwm instead of the module itself.  See bug report #4.

In  general, I  think its a   bad idea to terminate   a module by just
shutting down the  pipe.  It couldn't be  that hard to change all  the
modules that need it to understand a stop message.

---

From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:44:13 +0100

> adding this support to all modules to be generic.

I have a few concerns about such a patch:

 1) '--name' is not a good name for this option.  Rather call it
    'Name' or better 'Alias'.
 2) If the fvwm alias and the module alias don't match this will
    confuse the user.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

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From: Dominik Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:39:14 +0100

> Now, is someone against that I commit this new "feature" ?

No.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

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From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:27:07 +0200

>     'Name' or better 'Alias'.

And why should fvwm suppose that there are no modules with these names?

>  2) If the fvwm alias and the module alias don't match this will

This is exactly why I named it --name (pipe name), not --alias.

Ok, since there are complains I will not apply this patch, but the
solution for a native alias support is needed after 2.4.

Regards,
Mikhael.

---

From: Mikhael Goikhman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:17:32 +0200

>     'Name' or better 'Alias'.

Why should fvwm suppose that there are no modules with these names?

This is exactly why I named it --name (pipe name), not --alias.
For it to be an alias (common) we should change module protocol.

Ok, since there are complains I will not apply this patch.

Regards,
Mikhael.